Reimagining Revenge with Ish Sidhu
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Description
In this episode of "Happily Never After," host Heather McG sits down with Ish, a comedian and former lawyer, to explore the tumultuous journey of recovering from a toxic relationship. Ish candidly shares her experiences with a narcissistic partner, the emotional rollercoaster of breaking free, and how she transformed her pain into a viral TikTok series. Through humor and raw honesty, Ish discusses the complexities of revenge, healing, and self-discovery. Tune in for an eye-opening conversation that delves into the depths of emotional abuse and the power of reclaiming one's narrative.
If you are experiencing domestic abuse you can reach out to the National Domestic Violence Hotline via web or at 800.799.7233
About Ish Sidhu
Ish is a comedian and former lawyer turned TikToker. In the last year she has amassed a following of 573k+ followers on TikTok and 275k followers on Instagram and is best known for her series Revenge Ideas from a Lawyer That Won't Get You Arrested... Probably. It's definitely not legal advice, but it sure is funny.
About Heather McG
Heather is an Emmy and Cannes Lion Grand Prix-winning producer, author, and founder of McG Media. She is the creator of the happily never after, a 360-degree project that explores how life’s endings can lead to a new beginning. A twin mom, endurance athlete, and devoted Trekkie, sitting still has never been her forté.
Transcript
Heather McG (00:20)
Welcome to the Happily Never After, a podcast where we explore how life's endings can lead to a new beginning. If you enjoy the show, don't forget to rate, review, and follow us wherever you are listening or watching the show today. My guest today is Ish. Ish is a comedian and former lawyer turned TikToker. She is best known for her series Revenge Ideas from a Lawyer That Won't Get You Arrested, probably. It's definitely not legal advice, but it sure is funny and revenge is what we're going to be talking about today.
Heather McG (00:48)
I am so pleased to welcome you to the show. Thank you for being here.
Ish (00:52)
Hi, thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.
Heather McG (00:54)
All right, so Ish has started a movement online talking about her feelings after a breakup, all about revenge, which I think is great. Most of the time you hear, you know, after a breakup, go to the spa, you know, sit with yourself, feel your feelings, read a book, and you went in the other direction, which I think is hilarious. ⁓ You know, as we get into that, tell us about this relationship that inspired this whole thing.
Ish (01:16)
Well, he was a demon, demon disguised as a man. I think it's a canon event for every woman in their late 20s, early 30s to like open your eyes to the evils of the world.
Heather McG (01:18)
Okay.
Ish (01:27)
and I was like, ⁓ this is what evil is. This is a fundamentally horrible person broken from the inside out who's taking it out on me. what I didn't realize at the time, but very quickly discovered as soon as I was out of it was a very emotionally abusive relationship with a narcissist, ⁓ you know.
was so great in the beginning, was my best friend, was so nice. And then anytime I stepped out of line, like relentlessly punished me. ⁓ So I would be like more perfect and like people please and do better. And like, you know, the whole time just picking away at my self-esteem. You know, if you look at pictures of me from the beginning to like the middle to the end, you just like watch the light leave my eyes and it's very spooky. So at the very end.
Heather McG (02:08)
Yeah.
Ish (02:15)
He, I tried to break up with him because he did some really fucked up shit and I was like, I cannot do this anymore. And he was very mad because narcissists don't like to be alone and he didn't have like what they call a new supply set up. So when I broke up with him, he said, I reject this dramatic display of emotion like a psycho. And then gaslit me into thinking that this is what I always do is I have big emotions.
Heather McG (02:38)
my God.
Ish (02:45)
and then come to my senses later. basically it was just, it would be miserable and I would leave and then narcissists are like very chemically addicting. So I'd go through these like brutal like withdrawals where it felt like I was dying and I physically couldn't handle it. So I would go back to him.
And then every time I would leave, he would be like, you know, take your time. You mean so much to me. I'll always be here. I would like ask him to block me on social media because I knew I couldn't do it. And he would always be like, how am going to get a hold of you? And he decided he want to talk to me And then after all that, I got to the point where I was like, I'm going to go I keep doing this. And so I was like, I just like.
I need a break, I can't do this anymore. And at that point he was seeing somebody else and he was like, okay, hope you feel better soon, bye. And then blocked me and I never heard from him again. And it was, sure. It was so devastating. So emotionally crippling
Heather McG (03:32)
Good.
You
Ish (03:40)
and to like unpack everything that happened and then slowly, because people throw around the term narcissist. So to like actually know and to be like researching what he had done to me, because one of the stages of recovering from narcissistic abuse is research. And so I would just spend like hours reading about narcissists. And it's like, if you've dated one, you've dated them all. And it was just like, I felt like I was in psychosis because the person I dated wasn't real. That person didn't exist. And
Heather McG (04:05)
Right.
Ish (04:09)
to just see like all the damage he had done. Like at one point he started tormenting me about my weight to the point where I was like googling liposuction and I told him he would be proud of me. And his response was, that won't work for you. It's good for spot treatment, not overall weight loss. You should try Ozempic. And then I did.
Heather McG (04:27)
Okay, I have so many questions. I'm gonna stop you right here, because I have so many questions. One, here's the thing that makes me legitimately sad. We're gonna have a good time today, but also there are things like, my God, because what you're talking about, I think happens a lot. It happens all the time. And I feel like, I know for me, I've talked to so many women that they get into this cycle of they know they're in something that's not good, but they break up with them, they go back, they break up with them, they go back, they break up with them, they go back.
Ish (04:27)
I would? Yeah. Yeah. Yes, please.
they break up with them, they go back, they break up with them, they go back, they break up with
they go back. It's so clear to everyone and that's how you think they know too about what a terrible relationship it is. How do you think women do that? Well, they say that people casually say you're addicted to the chaos or you're addicted to the highs and lows without understanding it is an addiction.
Heather McG (04:56)
I mean, it's so clear to everyone, and I kind of think they know too about what a terrible relationship it is. Why do you think women do that?
Ish (05:16)
I don't know how else to describe it. Like, I remember when I was dating this man, I was like, he is the best drug I've ever tried. The high that I felt around him, like the serenity when he was nice to me, when I behaved well, when he was kind to me, felt better than anything I had ever felt. And when he was horrible to me, I would do anything to get that good feeling back, just like a drug addict, despite all the negative consequences. And like, just like a heroin addict, like,
When I was in withdrawal, it was so fucking painful that even though I knew he was the cause of my misery, I would do anything to get back to him because I just needed relief. And at that point, like when you're in an abusive situation, they isolate you from your friends and family and like make you so dependent on them that they're the only one you can go to for comfort. And he like melted my brain into goo and convinced me I was dumb.
I was incapable of making decisions on my own. Like I would ask, he made every decision for me, not because he was controlling, like, cause I convinced myself that like I couldn't make a decision. like anything he told me about me, I believed it. So like, just think like when you're in those situations, what people can't understand and what I can't even understand about myself looking back is how fucking warped my mind was, how-
fundamentally broken And it's so subtle, the- have you ever think about the frog in the pot of boiling water? Yeah. So it happens so slowly and gradually, you don't see it coming, and then you're unrecognizable to anyone to your- and yourself. You don't have any friends or family who are close to you, because you've cut them all off, or they've like abandoned you, or they're just distant. And you're chemically addicted to this person,
Heather McG (06:46)
Yeah, yep.
Ish (07:04)
And it's just like you're lost, you're confused, you're broken, your brain doesn't work. And all you feel is pain and all you want is for it to stop. And you are convinced that your worth is up to their opinion is another part of it. questions. How do you think you got yourself into this relationship in the
Heather McG (07:17)
how do you think you got yourself into this relationship in the first place?
Ish (07:22)
That is a very easy question to answer. a predator knows how to spot prey. And I was easy pickings. I was lonely. I was desperate to get into a relationship to avoid my own feelings. My life was chaotic and I didn't want to look at it. I was also drinking a lot.
and abusing a lot of Adderall. am sober now. And I
gaslit myself into also think like I'm a little responsible of like I gaslit myself into thinking the situation wasn't as bad as it was because I just wanted something because I was just lonely and like going through a lot.
Heather McG (07:57)
Do you think you would have left for real if he hadn't have blocked you on everything? Like, do think you would have gone back again?
Ish (08:04)
So like, thankfully, and I mean, tragically, like the thing with narcissists is like part of the narcissistic cycle of abuse is inevitably like the discard Like, so once you get to the point where like you are more trouble than you're worth, where he's broken you so much that you're like now annoying and a bummer, once he has a replacement lined up,
a new supply as they call it, he will brutally dump you in the garbage. I didn't leave. Like I think I need to make that very clear. I didn't leave. he would block me here and then I would reach about here and he would block me there
Heather McG (08:29)
Yeah.
Ish (08:34)
he blocked my phone number, it's because I was already blocked and everything else. But the bigger point is like he already had a replacement. So unlike all of the other times where he was like, I'm always here for you, take as much time as you need because he had someone else who was like shiny and new, he didn't fucking need me anymore. So that's why he was like, OK, blocked. Like there was no like discussion of like, I'm going to miss you, blah, blah, blah. It was just like, OK, blocked. And then he never spoke to me again. Like he threw me in the garbage. I had no say in that matter.
Heather McG (08:48)
Right.
Ish (09:01)
I had no expectation that he wasn't going to reach out to me again. I mean, it was devastatingly painful. And I was like, I need to stop. this is, cause it was also towards the end, like as he had found a replacement, like, cause he like found another girl, but he hadn't locked it in yet, but he was getting meaner and meaner and meaner. And I was like, I like, I'm like losing my breath thinking about it. And I was like, I can't do this anymore, but yeah.
Heather McG (09:20)
Yeah.
Ish (09:28)
I didn't leave. Like point blank, I didn't leave. He threw me in the garbage because that's what narcissists do. And so I'm grateful I ended up with a narcissist and not a normally abusive person because yeah, I might still be there.
Heather McG (09:34)
Wow, and do that.
Now narcissism, like you were saying before, it's a word we hear all the time these days. What does that word mean to you? Like what does it mean to be a narcissist?
Ish (09:46)
a clinical,
it's a clinical disorder that's under diagnosed because they aren't the type of people to seek therapy. And essentially, it stems from like, from what I understand, it's like an antisocial personality disorder. And it stems from a maladaptive coping mechanism in your youth. So essentially, like you have an abusive parent or like neglectful parents, or you're just like,
Heather McG (09:54)
Right.
Ish (10:11)
taught that you're not enough. They're like just, very inherently, insecure, people who cannot sit with themselves. So they use other people to self soothe and they think the fantasy of another person is gonna fix them. And then they get resentful the second you're not perfect or you try to get too close to them, which they find repulsive because they hate themselves. So the fact that you find them great is disgusting to them because they're like, wow, you must have no self-worth.
even though they've created a mask, which I'll get to in a second that tricks you.
there's just like so many components to it. It's like, if you can easily diagnose someone as a narcissist, they are not, because it is complicated. Like you can look it up online and a big thing is like the narcissistic cycle of abuse, which is like love bombing, which is where they...
Heather McG (10:53)
Yeah.
Ish (10:55)
That's like the maladaptive coping mechanism. they will change the whole personality to get that person's approval. And then that works over time. So that's why with a narcissist, everyone except the girl they're dating or their supply thinks they're amazing because they're a different person to every person and they're the exact person that person wants to see.
If we're talking about like, you know, grandiose narcissists, like there are different types. There's yeah, covert, malignant, but this is like grandiose narcissists. And so, the love bombing stage is them, they idealize you and make and think you are perfect and you are the solution to all of their problems. And then it's like once you
Heather McG (11:18)
Yeah, because there's different kinds. Yeah.
Ish (11:34)
aren't perfect. Once you shatter that fantasy, then they punish you relentlessly until you start to behave better. And then they'll be kind to you again and give you a little bit of love bombing. And it just sort of repeats until the discard comes, right? easy to identify traits of narcissism are like... I mean, I think the easiest one to identify is they always ruin important events. Any holiday, any accomplishment,
any special day, it doesn't matter how good things have been, they will find a way to fucking ruin it and make it about themselves and make you feel like a piece of shit because they can't handle anyone else having the spotlight. And like if you are suffering, like suffering, but everyone else in their life thinks they're awesome you're probably with a narcissist.
Heather McG (12:19)
Yeah, there is, I have someone in my life who is diagnosed narcissist. So I am also aware of many of these ⁓ not so great character traits when you have a family member of some sort that's diagnosed with narcissism. they can't authentically attach. they know how to fake connection. They know how to pretend to have relationships, but at heart.
at least as far as I can tell, they really actually don't care. Like there's no authentic emotional connection that they are able to create. Like that piece is just missing, which on the one hand makes me really sad for them, but also it means that they just carve a flaming fire of disaster wherever they go with anyone who, you know, is a daughter or a son or in a relationship with them. They just are.
they create so much disaster in the lives of the people that are unfortunate enough to come into their path.
Ish (13:11)
Yeah, no, I mean, and that one's complicated because it's like, yes, and...
Like, I do think, and my therapist agrees with me on this, that he, so like a trademark trait of narcissists is they lack empathy, 100%. They cannot comprehend how someone else feels. And they, if they could, they certainly would not put it over what they felt. Now, I do think to the extent this individual was capable of caring for someone,
Heather McG (13:22)
Ha ha ha.
Ish (13:43)
He did care about me. There was like a fondness and an affection.
that's the extent of what he could feel. Like he felt affection towards me. He enjoyed having me around and like had a level of compassion for my suffering when it was bad enough and not caused by him. But like if he was causing me pain and I was trying to express that to him,
Like he couldn't process that he did something wrong or just that I was in pain. He saw me causing problems and then would punish me until I shut up because he didn't want to feel that discomfort because they can't look inwards because it's too painful. So then they lash out at everyone else.
Heather McG (14:15)
yeah.
Ish (14:21)
And this is part of the problem is they pick really empathetic people who can try to see the best in them, which is like what I'm by default doing right now. But yes, you are correct. They leave a trail of fiery devastation everywhere behind them. Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yep.
Heather McG (14:29)
I know, I was like, I think I see some. Yeah.
Okay, so in the wake of this breakup, you have changed your life in a pretty big way over the last few years in the wake of this breakup. Can you talk about what this breakup was like for you and how did you go about redesigning the rest of your life? Because you and I have talked about this off camera and you made some big changes.
Ish (14:51)
Yeah, well, I was devastated.
What was really going on, the actual truth of what was going on, that's not like the cookie cutter answer is I wanted revenge so badly because he destroyed me and my life And I just wanted him to pay.
I went two weeks without sleeping. I was out of my fucking mind. And eventually I was like, OK, I need to stop doing that. But like, I would just get stuck in like wanting him to pay. I would like go on Reddit and they were like,
Either it was like, live a good life, have a glow up. Like you said, go to the spa. And I was like, I haven't showered in six days. I'm like, I'm not about to like go to a sound bath, you know? But it's like, this man ruined my life And that felt so unfair.
And I felt so powerless and like alone and insane. I just like was broken. I was done.
Heather McG (15:37)
Yeah.
Ish (15:39)
it was insane. yeah.
Heather McG (15:41)
Well, if I could interject here
a little bit, think, you know, I've been in abusive relationships and I think something we don't talk about enough is the recovery from an abusive relationship is brutal. It is brutal because you get caught in such a shame spiral, like how did I let this happen to me? How did I agree to this? You know, especially if you spent years in it, how did I get there? How did I let this happen? How did I not see it? Why didn't I leave sooner? What am I doing?
It's almost like you attack yourself so hard so you've got that going on and then you're upset about the lost time You're upset about the fact that you you feel like you let someone do this to you And it's kind of interesting because it's all true. Yes. I I was there I didn't like run away, but it also the other piece of this is abuse really does change your brain It changes your mind it changes who you are it gets me really frustrated when
Other women are talking about getting through abusive situations and inevitably there's always at least one. One person will chime in with, well why didn't you just leave? And I get so angry because it's like abuse doesn't do something to a person. It actually changes how a person sees themselves. It does so much damage to them. That's just not how it works and I wish more people understood that.
Ish (16:57)
But yes, no, people act like it's like not, they're like, it's like when you're depressed and someone's like, we'll go on a walk.
Heather McG (17:03)
Right, like it's that simple, like you flip a switch, right? It actually does something to you. I remember, I watched a television show called Made, which I don't know if you've ever seen it, I think it's on Netflix. It has Andy McDowell and her daughter, who's really famous and I cannot think of her name right now, she's very beautiful. It's this whole story about this woman who was in an abusive relationship and then she finally left and she's rebuilding her life.
Ish (17:03)
My brain is broken. Yeah, people just don't get it.
Heather McG (17:27)
And I remember I just watched it, I binged it, I watched it all night and I was just like crying the whole time because you just don't get it until you leave and you start to heal and you start to see the last few years of your life with a lot more clarity. And it's really overwhelming to know that you ⁓ participated in that. And I don't know how else to put it because it's true, like you don't run away a lot of times. And then later you're like, why didn't I just leave?
But abuse just does so many things to your brain that incapacitate you, it makes you nuts. ⁓ I don't know, I just get really frustrated when I hear that from the outside world. Things like, why didn't you just leave? ⁓ well I would have if I would have been in my right mind.
Ish (18:07)
Yeah, or
if I knew like when I was in it, I had no fucking clue. You know what I mean? Like I didn't know it was abusive. To me, he was the greatest guy in the world because like, like you said, your brain is just broken. And like also, like as you were talking, something that came up is like when you were like you had been in an abusive relationship, there was a core part of my identity that like piped up and was like, I could never be in abusive relationship. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And it's just like, I...
Heather McG (18:31)
Right. Right.
Ish (18:34)
have never seen myself as somebody who would be in an abusive relationship. So it's like, it's so counter to my understanding of my own identity that I definitely couldn't have seen it at the time. And if somebody had pointed it out, I couldn't have heard it anyways, because to me, like I am not somebody who would be in an abusive relationship. So you don't even have the ability.
to recognize what's going on, because it's just like so counter to who you think you are.
Heather McG (18:58)
There's no way, there's no way. Well, there's, I don't know if you ran into this data, but there's data that, you know, I put this in quotes, because what does this even mean? Highly successful women are more likely to get into abusive relationships because they think it can't happen to them. There are two, you know, again, air quotes all day. They think they're, ⁓ it just couldn't happen to them. It's not possible. They wouldn't allow that to happen to them. Yet it is more likely to happen to them because they are so clueless in that area.
Ish (19:10)
Mm-hmm.
Okay,
here's my take. like, I love how they came to the correct conclusion and the reasoning is so ass backwards No, what happens is they're like, let me humble her. Let me set her straight and show her who she really is. Another component is
Heather McG (19:32)
Yeah.
Ish (19:38)
they have no internal self-worth. So they see a girl like that and they're like, if I can get that, then I'm worth something. And then they get with her and they feel emasculated and resent her and then punish her and torture her and then bring her down to their level.
I don't know that any of how much of this is conscious, but I think a lot of it. I think part of it is like, there are some really malicious people who are like, if I can get that girl, then I'm worth something. And then they get really insecure and then they punish her relentlessly. I think that they're just shinier objects. Do you know what I mean? Or there are men who really hate her because she's successful.
Heather McG (20:08)
Right, yeah, no, that is very true.
Yeah, I mean, it's definitely that falls in with the pattern narcissism because it makes them feel good to be with someone who is, you know, we'll put it this way, whatever they think, whatever their definition of successful looks like, whether that's, I don't know, looks, job, career, personality, whatever, whatever, however they define success. And then that makes them feel better about themselves, but they do not have the skill to have an actual relationship with that person. So it devolves into insanity. I will say in the relationship I'm in, which is the healthiest one I've ever been in.
Ish (20:22)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Heather McG (20:41)
It was really interesting. I remember I got some anxiety because we were about to have our first argument or disagreement, I should say. Doesn't happen often, but we'd been dating for a few months. I was like, we got to have like kind of a serious talk. And I had so much anxiety about it. And I pushed it off for so long. And then finally I brought it up. And then it was, we just had a conversation. She was like, yeah, I can see why you would feel that way. Let's try to do it differently. And I was like, what?
Like I couldn't believe that I could have a conversation with someone where he didn't call me names, he didn't yell at me, he validated my feelings, and we only had that conversation once. We didn't have to have that conversation 50 times where nothing ever changes. And it blew my mind.
Ish (21:16)
Where's your therapist and how do I get her phone number? Because how did you get there? Like that's crazy to me. Like, yeah.
Heather McG (21:23)
I know.
Well, I'm, you know, I'm in my mid forties and for me to say that this is, it took me this long to find a relationship that what you're describing, cause it is so I think it's pretty common. Like every woman I know that's dating has at least one of these stories, at least one, which is really sad. And women do it too. I don't want to say, don't want to sound like, well, and I don't want to sound like we're man bashing either. Cause women do this too, for sure. I think we're just, when you're a woman who dates men, you tend to get more of these stories than the other kinds. So.
Ish (21:37)
Yeah. Like I said, it's a K &N event.
Yeah, and
I want to say like.
Heather McG (21:51)
that we're talking about from
our perspective and our experiences.
Ish (21:54)
Yeah,
So it's like, we're not talking about men because we are man bashing and hating. We're saying that like this is a dangerous, traumatic, awful thing that we run through.
and we can only speak to the female experience, but it is real trauma that a lot of us has been through and we're all collectively so fucking scared. Anyway, sorry, I just had to get that out there.
Heather McG (22:10)
Well,
in news that may surprise everyone, I actually have men who listen to this podcast, which usually these things are very female-led. We've got quite a few men, so that's pretty good. Okay, so I have a question for you. So going into the major theme of today, revenge. So I think all of us have felt that way. All of us have been hurt or been through a bad experience where we definitely have those feelings. You know, it's like, I don't know how you put it, maybe the shadow side that we all have where you, maybe it's not that side that wants to rise above.
It's not that side that, you know, it's like, you know, there's a phrase, break up with grace, go with grace. And I really appreciate people that are good at that. I have never been all, you know, I can go in silence. Like I can go and drop the hammer and just like leave, but I've never been good at the go with grace, wishing well. ⁓ Then there's an even other side that's where you have the feelings of revenge, where you are upset about what happened to you and you do get stuck there for a while. However, I don't know if just ignoring those feelings is the way through it.
How did you, with what you were doing online, how did embracing those ideas of revenge, whether you did them or not, how did that help you process?
Ish (23:17)
I mean, it was so cathartic because like, I mean, I've gone with Grace in breakups, you know, I've never been a vengeful person. If anything, for like months afterwards, I'm just crying that I wasn't nicer to them. despite my internet personality, I'm a very kind, gentle, sensitive, loving, delicate flower of a human being.
This series, like I'm convinced, was divinely inspired because it's like I just heard a little voice in my head that was like, make this a TikTok series. And I had never really posted on TikTok. I had no internet presence before this whatsoever beyond like my personal Instagram. And ⁓ so eventually, like I worked up the courage to do it and it was so cathartic and like one to get the ideas out there, but more so like the number of women
who identified with exactly what I was going through. Because I felt so alone to like go online and I'm like, I'm the only one who can't handle a breakup with Grace. And to know that there were so many other women who in my comments would tell a story or like message me and I'd be like, was he a narcissist? And they'll be like, yeah, because it's like, we've all been, it just made me realize we've all been through this. I thought I was the only one. And like for women to be like, there was one woman who sent me ⁓ like stitched one of my videos and she was talking about how she was weeping all day.
Heather McG (24:24)
Yeah.
Ish (24:33)
for days. And my video was the first time she laughed in like a week. And like that made me feel so powerful because I felt so powerless.
Like, you know, it started off with like, as Courtney Barnett says, like take a broken heart and turn it into art. And then it just turned into like this beautiful, really healing project, which is confusing to a lot of people if you haven't been around since the beginning, but that's what it is.
Heather McG (24:58)
Well, and to explain to everyone too, what Ish does is she records these videos that are the short little videos that are like ideas for revenge and quite often they are goofy, funny, ⁓ highly creative and it's not obviously probably won't get you arrested and it's not legal advice. But they're just different ideas for revenge and they have been pretty popular and pretty funny and I think it has hit a nerve because I think there's an aspect to this where we are not allowed to be angry.
Ish (25:23)
Yeah, especially as women.
Heather McG (25:24)
when bad things
happen to us. Yeah. And so it kind of, what I think is interesting is I think the way you have framed it is with humor to a large degree. And so it's, which I think a lot of times humor can give you passage through your anger. Like to me, those things work together very carefully. Cause like when I have been most angry, if I can find a way to inject some humor into it, that helps me get to the other side at some point when I'm ready. You know, it takes time for everyone.
But I think the way you do it is pretty funny. ⁓ But yeah, most women are not, you're not allowed to be mad. You were supposed to forgive, move on, let it go. I don't wanna hear about it anymore. But the reality is, this stuff sticks with us a lot longer than we want it to.
Ish (26:04)
Yeah.
women aren't allowed to be angry. I never let myself feel anger because it's bad. And, you know, to just have these absurd ideas that are like, you know, you're not crazy for feeling this mad. And it's funny to like, like, because doing revenge doesn't feel good. I can say that 100%.
But to like sit.
And imagine these really elaborate, absurd ideas is so satisfying. And it's so much more cathartic than going out and like, you know, acting on your lower self.
catharsis is such an important part of the human experience. And if you need to release, like if you don't release that anger, when you bottle up anger, it turns into despair and you gotta get that energy out.
Heather McG (26:45)
Yeah, I mean, I always tell people, what you feel like you need to say. Don't, you know, there are lines, like, I think I was talking to someone because she'd been really screwed over. And she was struggling. She was like, pardon me once I send an email, you know, to him saying how I feel. But the other part of me doesn't want him to know that I care. And I kind of sit to the side of,
No other person is going to tell me who I am or how to act. And if I want to say something, I will say it. And I can't control how they're going to take it or what they're going to do with that. I can't control that part. But I do think there's value in saying what you need to say. And when I said to her, it once, like don't become a stalker. But you do have a, you have the right to say what you need to say in a non-abusive way. Get it out there, say it, and then maybe that'll help you move on. I don't know. But bottling it up, not.
expressing these things is not going to get anybody anywhere and honestly, I think that's a sexist ⁓ mindset that women are not allowed to talk. We're not allowed to say how someone's hurt us. We have to act like it doesn't bother us when the reality is the truth is much different from that.
Ish (27:50)
Yeah, we're supposed to like be abused and not care. But like, to the point of like what...
Heather McG (27:55)
Yeah.
Ish (27:56)
of like sending the email, I'm like split on that because it's like with this guy, my biggest regret is all of the things left unsaid So it's like, yes, don't be abusive, but also tell someone to fuck off. You know what I mean? And you don't need to protect him from that because that's who he is and he deserves to know that.
Heather McG (28:12)
well, I think the difference there is, that who you are?
I'm not going to...
do something or say something that's not who I am because then I'm just, I'm going to feel shitty about that later because that's not who I am. You know, and if they want to act like an asshole, they can go do that, but that's not me.
Ish (28:23)
Well, so the thing is, I'm-
The thing is, it's not me either, which is like the confusing thing is like I have ended everything with all of my exes on good terms, and like, that's why I mean like the things left unsaid, like I didn't tell him to fuck off. I didn't say fuck you. I handled everything with love and light and grace and looking back, I betrayed myself so often by swallowing my pain and my rage and my sorrow to like handle something.
with Grace, you know?
Heather McG (28:57)
How do you move on? Like for me, holding anger and hatred for someone at a certain point, it just pulls me apart. So how do you move through and process those feelings so that you can put it in your past? How do you do that?
Ish (29:00)
own time.
So the first part was just a lot of therapy, a lot of research to just understand what happened, a lot of work on like forgiving myself for letting this happen to me and like completely losing myself. And also I just cried every day for six months. I just wept because there was so much like sorrow and heartbreak there on so many different levels from like self betrayal to like him hurt, whatever.
Um, and then, you know, the revenge idea series was a huge part of it. But so we went no contact January 28th, 2024. And then August 2024, at that point, I was like two months. So getting sober was also a huge part of it. I got sober. I quit my lawyer job. I started doing TikTok stuff full time and just like honored my truth more than I ever had. Like after months of like years of betraying myself, I just like honored the hell out of my truth and just fucking lived out loud and was like at that point I had
nothing left to lose and I was just like my most authentic self. despite all of that, come August of that year, I was calling my sponsor and weeping because I was in so much pain and I was like, I can't carry this resentment anymore. It is eating me alive. It is poison in my chest. I can't handle this anymore. And so, I mean, this is not going to work for everyone, but in like my recovery program, there's like a thing in the book that like ⁓ it's called the resentment prayer.
And every day for two weeks, you pray that the object of your resentment gets everything in life that you would want for yourself and you like list them. So like, I hope they feel safe in their body. I hope that they love themselves. I hope they are creatively fulfilled. I hope they live a life that they're proud of. I, whatever. And it's a miserable experience. And for the first like, however many days you don't believe it, but for some reason after the two weeks, it's not, it's different. And like, I felt at the end of that two weeks, I felt
different and every time I do it, it works. I'm not poisoned by my hatred for him anymore. Why it works? I don't know, but it did. And that was how I worked through it. And that's not for everybody, but that's what worked for me.
Heather McG (31:18)
So you changed your life in a big way in only a year. You went through this breakup, you changed your career, you got sober. Those are some huge changes in your life and they're moving in a positive direction. So what are some of the biggest lessons you learned through that?
Ish (31:34)
If you honor your authentic self and stop running from your feelings and trying to numb out, life will move and change things for you.
I just showed up for myself.
I don't know, like I've just become, I've always been a spiritual person, but like in the last year, I've just seen that like, when you just show up, and just honor who you really are and show up authentically and sit through uncomfortable feelings and like move through the flow of life and the tides coming in and out, like life moves for you. It's like the ocean. If you keep swimming out, you know.
You'll get thrown back with the waves as they come in and out. You'll get sucked out with it. And then eventually you get out to calmer waters. then you're just floating and you just move along. So just show up.
put in a tiny bit of effort and like fucking cry. Let yourself cry, feel the feelings and like everything will be okay. Leap and the net will appear.
If there's a thing you want to fucking do If you know the what and the or even just the why take the leap, start the job, quit the job and the relationship, whatever, just leap and the net will appear. And I've seen that over and over again this last year.
Heather McG (32:40)
Okay, so for, we talked about this too. This is a story that I think almost every woman has been through at least once, if not multiple times. What would you say to women who maybe they're listening to this and they are recognizing some things? Like, hmm, maybe this is happening to me too. Maybe this is not where I should be and I need to find a way to get out. Like what would you say to someone who is caught in that cycle like you were?
Ish (32:47)
Hmm.
Mm.
So the practical advice I would say is like, it's not your fault, don't be ashamed of yourself because like shame and guilt and self-hatred are not motivators for growth. So beating yourself up, not gonna help and don't be mean to my friend like that. ⁓ The more woo-woo advice is,
You can get out now and it'll be easier, but the universe is whispering to you right now and it will get louder and louder and more aggressive until you finally decide to hear it. So you'll get out. It's just a matter of how much pain you want to go through first before it's truly unbearable and you have to leave. So don't stress out. You will go if that's the universe's plan for you. But if you want it to fucking hurt so much less, you want to spend less money on therapy.
Leave in the next three months, please.
Heather McG (34:01)
Yeah, this is so basic, but something I've started asking people is, do you like this person? Like, do you actually like them as a person? And it is so basic and it's so kindergarten, but so often we get into these relationships. And I remember this hit me at one point someone asked me like, do you even like this guy? I'm like, no, I don't. And they're like, then why are you with them? Like it really is that simple.
And not everybody is in a position to leave, especially if you're married, if you don't have your own sources of income. But there are people out there that can help you leave, ⁓ you know, different organizations. And I'll link some of them in the show notes today. They can help you make a plan. They can help you leave. The whole idea that you've only got one life is real. So it's not worth it to spend years with someone who is hurting you on purpose in an abusive way. It's not worth it. You have to make a plan to leave somehow.
Ish (34:48)
Yeah, I
Like as you were saying, do you like this person? I was obsessed with this person. So I would answer yes. But what I would say no is, do you think this person's a good person? And that I could have answered in the negative pretty easily. So maybe try if you are like, yes, I do like him. Ask if you think he's a good person, because probably he's not. And that's what I will contribute to that.
Heather McG (35:10)
Yeah, and
don't think about it in terms of chemistry. Like, but we have such good chemistry. Chemistry is bullshit. Don't account for that in your answer. Chemistry is a made-up thing. That's made up. That's made up, so we're not, we're gonna stop worrying about spark and chemistry. also when people say connection, that is also bullshit a lot of the time. So just, this a good person? Do they make me feel good? Do I like them? Ask yourself all of those very simple questions and just see what you think. See what you wanna answer to that.
Ish (35:19)
Yeah, oxytocin's a drug. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Heather McG (35:41)
thank you so much for being here, sharing your story today. Where can people find you if they want to work with you or hear more from you?
Ish (35:48)
⁓ I am at what the ish on Instagram and TikTok. If you wanna work with me, it's just info.whattheish at gmail.com. Google what the ish and you'll find me.
Heather McG (35:58)
Cool, and I will link all of this in the show notes to make it easy for all of y'all. There's gonna be lots of links in the show notes today. you know, go do some reading. Amazing, thank you so much for being here. Thank you to everyone who is listening to the Happily Never After today, especially if you are on your own journey, and we hope you have a great week.