Walking Through Grief with Ashley Desanno
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Description
In this heartfelt conversation, Ashley Desanno shares her journey through grief following the loss of her father. She discusses the complexities of anticipatory grief, the impact on family dynamics, and the lessons learned through the grieving process. The conversation emphasizes the importance of self-care, the mind-body connection, and how to support children through loss. Both Ashley and Heather reflect on the different ways people grieve and the significance of keeping memories alive while navigating the emotional landscape of loss.
About Ashley Desanno
Ashley Desanno is a content creator (@lotsamiles), a mom, and a marathon runner. She is also the co-owner of a small business called The Creepy Book Club that she started with her best friend, and together they host a podcast called Books with Your Besties, building community all along the way. She tries to keep all the plates spinning—with coffee, laughter, and a lot of TMI.
Transcript
Heather McG (00:00)
Alright great. Hi everyone today my guest is Ashley Desanno. You may know her under her Instagram handle Lots of Miles where she talks about running, books, parenting, coffee, and life. She is also dedicated distance runner and I'm very jealous of your PR. You have an enviable marathon PR of 2:58.28. That's the latest right? I know you had a baby PR recently. So
Today, however, we connected on something that's a little bit more serious. We are here today to talk about grief. I've been following Ashley for a while online and we align on values, running books, all of those things, but I was sad to see that we also align in that both of us have lost our dads recently. And I asked Ashley to come on and I really appreciate you being willing to talk about this because I know it can be tough to talk about.
so that we could discuss one of life's biggest endings. Maybe it is the big ending and what life looks like after such a big loss. So I'm really happy that you're here with me today. Now, the first thing I was thinking we could start with, because I think sometimes this gets missed and all of it, I would love to hear more about who your dad was. There was a really beautiful selfie that you took with your dad and it happened to be just a few days before he passed. And you included a really beautiful caption that really talked about who your dad was to you.
and some of the things that he taught you. So can you kind of tell the story of that selfie and that photo and what it means to you?
Ashley DeSanno (01:29)
Yeah, just a little bit about my dad. My dad grew up in Oregon. He grew up in a small red town, but he somehow came out of it as blue and liberal as you could ever be. He intended on being a logger and a firefighter, but had a pretty horrific spinal injury, which is how he started to have this chronic lifelong disability. ⁓ So did a quick pivot and ended up going to Berkeley, Bolt Law, where he graduated top of his class and practiced law for
30 years. ⁓ And he's just, he's just one of the good ones. He's just a good guy, a cowboy at heart, but an empathetic, compassionate, funny, intelligent, just hell of a guy who thought he wouldn't get married. When he met my mom, he had thought nobody's going to want to marry me. Nobody's going to want to have kids with me. They met, got married, end of story. ⁓
He loved being a girl dad. always say he's the OG of girl dads. He couldn't care less if he had girls or boys, but he loved being a girl dad and being in our lives. And the story of that selfie is just, you know, I think you don't take pictures with your dad. I don't know what it is. I think he's either taking the pictures or he's doing something. And we were at my son's soccer game and it was two weeks before he passed. And near the end, even though we didn't know it was the end, he always got so cold.
So he was sitting on his little ⁓ chair that he would push to sit on and had a blanket on. And something in me just said, tell your dad to smile. So I just held my phone out and I go, dad smile. And he looked and that was the last picture we had together, that one. And he just looked happy and like himself. And it's my favorite picture.
Heather McG (03:14)
Well, something that occurred to me too when I saw that picture from you, I don't know if this happens to you, but for me quite often when I'm around my mom friends, it's not unusual to hear them say things like, don't take my picture. Oh, let's not do that. And a lot of the pictures of our kids are like, we're taking the pictures of them. And I always say, get in the picture. Cause at a certain point they're really going to be hungry for those moments with you. Don't care about what you look like or what you're wearing. Get in the picture, create those things. It just makes me so sad when I hear other moms say that because
at a certain point that's going to be what your kids have. And so I hope more people will get in the picture with their kids.
Ashley DeSanno (03:51)
And it was just a candid photo. I just held my phone up and I go, Dad, smile. And he did. And I just think it was ⁓ exactly who he was.
Heather McG (04:00)
Can you talk a little bit and today we are actually recording pretty close to when it happened. ⁓ Can you kind of share what happened two years ago?
Ashley DeSanno (04:09)
Yeah, so his, I don't know what you should call it. We call it a death-aversary, which sounds morbid, but we're also a dark humor family. ⁓ It was yesterday, so two years ago yesterday, he passed. And this could potentially be a long answer, but I had, I knew, like two years before he passed, I knew we had a short amount of time with him left, not because the doctors said so, I just felt it in my core.
Heather McG (04:17)
I'm
Ashley DeSanno (04:38)
and I could just see this was only going one direction, but it was definitely not anticipated that he would pass when he passed. So I had seen him two days before. My son randomly wanted to take a mental health day from school and spend it with grandma and grandpa. So we went over there. ⁓ I was walking downstairs, meeting a friend to run and it was four in the morning and I saw my mom calling and I thought,
there's no reason my mom's calling at four in the morning. And I don't think I thought my dad's dead, but I felt it somewhere in my body. And I answered and she said, Ash. And I said, hey, mom. And she said, your dad's passed. And I don't remember. My husband's like, the sound you made was just primal. And I don't even remember making it. And of course, it woke up my kids. And my husband totally ran cover for me. He's like, mom had a bad dream. She's sleepwalking. ⁓
And you know, felt, my mom and I just felt very connected in that moment because my mom said, the paramedics won't leave until I talk to someone. And she said, so I called you, which makes sense if you look at the relationship that my mom and I have, but to this day, she's so thankful we had that moment. so she told me my dad had passed and of course, my gut was to go over there instantly.
but I was able to sit with it for a minute and thought that's solving no problems for anybody. ⁓ His body's gonna be there. I want to be here and tell my kids, because if I wasn't here in the morning, that would be weird. So I went on a run and then the morning just unfolded. But I like to tell people also, he passed peacefully. He was in bed next to my mom and she knew something was happening. She heard his breathing and she...
This could be too much for people if you're somebody who doesn't like hearing like medical things, but she performed CPR and she's like, I knew he was gone, but like I had to give it my best shot. ⁓ So yeah.
Heather McG (06:46)
Yeah.
something you said too is making me think about sometimes when these really difficult things happen. I know in my life, I've been surprised to realize I don't remember it. Like I don't like I know what happened. Like I remember flashes up, but I don't remember the whole thing. I recently read a memoir called The Tell where she went through a lot of other kinds of really traumatic things in life. She's like, I don't remember it, but I know what happened. And I just think that's a really interesting experience. I know for me, when my dad passed, I wrote it all down.
right away and now looking back on it, I don't remember a lot of what I down. Like I don't remember being there for it and I think that's really interesting. I don't know if it's a protection thing or being overwhelmed, but I think that's really interesting that that happens.
Ashley DeSanno (07:34)
a few very specific memories from that day and my fear is more that someday I won't remember them. Like I can still remember I kissed him on his forehead and I thought ⁓ this type of death because his wasn't traumatic or messy he just looked so peaceful it wasn't what I anticipated so I can still feel the temperature of his skin when I kissed him on his forehead and feel his hands and I think I don't I don't want to forget that feeling.
So for me, so far it's been less about exactly what you're saying. Like there are things I don't remember, but the things I'm like, I don't want to forget that.
Heather McG (08:13)
You're gonna be really glad that you have that, I think. Now, what is the process? I know for me, I had a lot of surprises, but for you, what is the process of grieving looked like for you and was anything surprising to you?
Ashley DeSanno (08:26)
It's so funny to be interviewed about this topic. I just want to ask you everything ⁓ because it's so comforting to talk to someone else who's been through it because it's the second my dad passed and I started to grieve, which I don't think I did until this year. I think I care took for my kids and my mom the first year. But I, Heather, I wanted to call all my friends who'd lost parents before me and be like, shit, I'm so sorry I didn't show up for you.
Heather McG (08:28)
haha
Ashley DeSanno (08:56)
in a way that I now understand I could have because of how people showed up for me. So I think the most surprising piece of grief for me was that I didn't feel sad. I felt relieved that my dad wasn't in pain anymore and that we were able to move on. The most surprising piece for me is I am not someone who needs a lot of sleep. And the way grief showed up for me was
⁓ It's a two mile drive to my son's school and I would have to pull my car over and sleep for like four to five minutes. I'd set an alarm in my car because I think my body just shut down. It would be like you have to sleep and you have to sleep now. And I had never experienced that. And it lasted about three months of just feeling like I have to listen to my body and sleep when my body tells me when to sleep.
I think the piece of this, and we might be talking about this later, but I think the piece that was hard that I have really tried to counsel other people on is hold the space and hold the news to yourself because once you tell other people, you're no longer allowed to grieve because you become their caretakers. As you deliver the news to other people,
Heather McG (10:25)
Yeah.
Ashley DeSanno (10:27)
The way they show up for you is a way that is sometimes not helpful. And so that's been my number one piece of advice for people who lose a parent is if you don't have a sense of urgency to tell others, sit with it for as long as you can until you do.
Heather McG (10:42)
Well, and you're bringing something up that I had forgotten about and I didn't see it this way until right now when you were saying that I was lucky that I got to my dad's deathbed and I was there before he died and I was there when he actually died. But there were a couple days where we were just waiting and he couldn't talk. He couldn't see, but he could hear. And so with all I have a big family with all my siblings, we sent out a group text and said, Hey, if you have anything you want to say to dad, make a voice in my mom will play it in his ear. He will hear it. And
We did that with everyone and it was me, my brother, my mom, and my brother at certain point was like, Heather, do you have anything you want to say? Because we were just like facilitating it for everybody else. And I actually sat there and I was like, Mike, I don't know what to say. And we were like doing it for all of these other people. And it's just like, I don't know, my body just like froze up and I was there. Like I was right there. I could see it happening.
And it's just so interesting, because you're right, once you bring it up, then it's like you share it with other people and that's helpful and can bring you support. But then you've also got to be there for them if they were attached to that person. And I did not expect how overwhelmed I was. And honestly, it was a lot to have to do that.
Ashley DeSanno (11:52)
Where are you in birth order with your sister? Yeah, I I only have one sister. I know your family is huge, but this is eldest daughter to a T where you just go into planning mode. And then when you're asked to do the feel part, you're like, do I know how to do that part? Do I want to do that part? I don't think I do. So I'm gonna just keep doing this part.
Heather McG (11:56)
I'm eldest daughter. I'm the eldest daughter.
That is so exactly what it is. Like don't think I even felt it. Like I'm only starting to feel it. It's been like maybe seven months for me. So you're ahead of me. You're ahead of me on the journey. But you actually, ever Ashley and I had like an, just like a little pre conversation about a week or so ago. And you said something then I was like, my gosh, you're so right. Where you said, I think I'm just.
only now starting to really process it two years after. I didn't think it would take this long. Like you think you like have this big emotional reaction, then you start getting better. And I think I'm, I'm only now starting to even feel it. And so that was surprising to me that it takes so long to accept it.
Ashley DeSanno (12:59)
Forgive me for not knowing exactly your dad's journey, but now here I am asking you, because we both have eldest daughter syndrome. But I feel like, and I'm sure I'm not the first person to say this. I know that these are actual titles, but I felt like I had such anticipatory grief because I knew it was going to happen. I almost, and maybe this is me not wanting to deal with it, but I kind of feel like the two years before my dad passed,
Heather McG (13:05)
It's a thing.
Ashley DeSanno (13:27)
I had tremendous and immense sadness. Like I heard Stand By Me at a Race, which was my dad's song, and something in me said, that's the last time, this is the last race your dad's gonna be alive. So I kind of feel like I did some grieving before we lost him, and then had the acute grief where you're just, you can't eat, you're sobbing, the kind you see in the movies. But then it comes to this lull, and now I'm kind of unwilling to be like, where?
Where am I with this? Or have I not even scratched the surface, which is the terrifying part?
Heather McG (14:03)
Yeah, I feel like I'm in a clusterfuck to be honest, because I think it is my dad had Alzheimer's so we knew it was coming and it's like a few different and we were also a strange. This is also why I was excited to bring you on because you had a great relationship with your dad and loved him so much. And for me, I love the dad I wish I would have had, you know, but so it was kind it was this complicated thing of he had Alzheimer's, which personally, I think that is the worst way to die. Like from what I've seen, it is ⁓
You know, I won't go too far with it, but anyone who has like a family member with Alzheimer, it is brutal. So I think just from a human point of view, you know, it's kind of the mix of, you know, I'm not ever going to sit here and like wish death on anyone, but it gets so bad at the end. It's like this complicated thing of it's hard for you and it's sad for you, but also there's this human being that is suffering. ⁓
So I think for me, I'm just sitting in a cluster of, I was estranged, I hadn't talked to him for three years before I went to his death bed, but I did love him. And so it just like, I think for me, that's what grieving's been, it's just been a big cluster. And right now I'm still in the tangle, you know? And it's like starting to unwind, but it's just like at the beginning, I think it's gonna take a long time to be, I've like come to accept it's gonna be a while.
Ashley DeSanno (15:22)
And you know, my best friend, she was the first person I called in after he had passed and I knew I needed to say it out loud because that really made it real to someone. And she has constantly reminded me and I've tried to remind others of this because you just want, you want to feel like yourself again. And you want to be like, when is this grief thing going to just like be done? And she always says to me, you know, you're never
going to be who you were. Like you're learning how to be who you are without your dad. So the space around the grief will grow and will get bigger and you'll have less moments of sadness and confusion. like you, you were this person before and then you lost your dad. So now you're learning how to be a new person without him. And I just feel like that's a really good thing because it takes the pressure off of when am I going to feel normal in quotes again, because you're just not, you're not.
Heather McG (16:20)
Yeah, well, that's making me think of, think the best advice I've ever gotten for anyone who's grieving was a friend of mine who lost her child. And, you know, one of the questions I had for her was, what do you do with that? You know, because you're going to keep living. What do you do with us? And she said, you know, I think losing someone close to you, and she lost her child, you know, and you know, it's unfair on top of everything else.
She said, I think for me grief is like a black hole and at the beginning it's really sharp and jagged and excruciating. She said, but over time, the way I've approached it is I know that grief's never gonna go away, but I fill that hole with love. I actually like on purpose, fill it with love, fill it with good things, fill it with positivity and over time it becomes softer and it's a part of my story that will never go away. But it has enabled me to find joy in life now. And I just thought that was.
I have never forgotten that piece of advice and just like hung on to it. So I want to share it for anyone else who that might help too.
Ashley DeSanno (17:25)
A friend of mine who also lost her daughter ⁓ says something along the lines of like, it's okay to be big sad. Like you're only big sad because you had big love. So like if you love hard, it should hurt and you should feel it for a long time. Like you were lucky to have a love that was so big that now it brings on such big sadness.
Heather McG (17:49)
Yeah. Now for you over this process, there have, what have been your big lessons to this process? Is there anything that you learned that you think has kind of grown into this new part of your life?
Ashley DeSanno (18:03)
I think what I have learned is more a reflective, like I'm just so thankful I lived in a home where we said I love you often, like we made it weird. And we did so much nothingness together that I just think sometimes in the phase we are in of life right now, people are so busy and it's this hustle culture. And one thing I've learned is to...
to try to talk to my friends and say, one, if you can, spend time with your parents, even when they're like annoying you, and just do nothing together. Do nothing together. So even though at this point in time, my mom drives me absolutely bonkers, there's a whole lot of doing nothing together because if I've learned anything, it's those moments, right? I don't look back on the moments with my dad and think, yeah, he took me to Disney, or my favorite memory is that one time during a soccer tournament, I didn't feel like,
Heather McG (18:35)
you
Ashley DeSanno (18:59)
going and being with my team and we watched a documentary about bears on National Geographic and he rubbed my feet until I fell asleep. So I just think a reflection that's also a lesson that I'm trying to implement more in my life is to just slow down and if you can be together, be together and don't worry about what that looks like because it certainly doesn't need to be flashy at all.
Heather McG (19:23)
Something else that you brought up too that I'm thinking about is mind-body connection. And I don't know if this is the eldest daughter thing, because to be honest, now I'm thinking about it, was like, all these people I'm thinking about, I think they're all eldest daughters, they're all marathoners and runners. So for you, mind-body connection, you went for a run very shortly after you found out. And you're also a marathoner and an athlete. What role has that played into processing for you?
Ashley DeSanno (19:51)
It's my saving grace. ⁓ And I get it from my dad. He was very physically limited, but he could walk. So he walked every day five or six miles until he couldn't. So he ingrained that in us growing up. Like you are given one body and you do what you can with that body to keep it as strong, sturdy and healthy as you can. This is from a man that loved donuts and beer more than anything I've ever met. But he
Heather McG (20:20)
Hahaha
Ashley DeSanno (20:21)
bring that in us. And actually a friend of mine once said to me, like, do you think you run so much because your dad physically couldn't? And I was like, whoa, yes, but that's too, we're not, I'm not doing that. That's too deep. We're not going there. But running for me, I ran the day he passed and I actually talked to my brother-in-law on the phone. We were trying to get ahold of my sister and we just couldn't. She's a really heavy sleeper we kind of made a family decision to let her sleep.
because it's hard enough to wake her up and to wake her up and share this trauma. So I talked to her husband and I said, Eric, I'm on a run. I bet you think that's weird. And he goes, no, I think that's exactly what you should be doing. Because one of the things my dad really taught us was taking time to take care of yourself serves everyone. If you can't show up for yourself in a way that makes you feel healthy, happy, whatever, you sure as hell can't show up for anybody else. So I think running
has served that purpose. And I'd be lying if I say it's also not just a distraction, right? Like it's the one time I'm not on my phone, I'm not working, I'm not forced to think about my dad or my kids, it's just running.
Heather McG (21:38)
remember my therapist told me once, because I made some sort of comment about, I know it's probably not good that I react to everything by going on a run. It feels like I'm just like ignoring what's going on in my life. And she was like, you know, distraction is not evil. It's okay to distract yourself, especially when you're overwhelmed. And if you just need to give your brain a break, there's nothing wrong with that. And she just kind of gave me permission. It's okay to check out every once in a while and that's okay. As long as you're not checking out all the time, it's okay.
I do remember and you're going to appreciate this I know because you know about this space so I'm an 11 minute marathoner I'm a lot slower than you are but the morning that I decided to fly down to Texas to my dad's deathbed I had all these emotions and I went for a five mile run I ran 805 pace
Ashley DeSanno (22:22)
You were like, I'm going to...
Heather McG (22:23)
It was like all in there.
Ashley DeSanno (22:27)
you
Heather McG (22:28)
Now, something that you and I also talked about is that people grieve differently. And I think sometimes that can cause tension in a family. You know, like I know in my family, we all reacted to it very differently. And I think we're pretty good at supporting each other and what we need to do in our case. But I don't know that that's the case always. For you, how did you all navigate that in your family? I imagine that there were differences in how you all grieved. How do you think people can show up for each other? Or what was that experience like for you?
Ashley DeSanno (22:56)
So in my personal family, it's, as I've said, in my nature to care take, my sister is a very free spirit, artistic, know, she speaks multiple languages fluently. She's a writer and she feels her feels. So like, I was the first one there. I saw my dad, I cried with my mom, and then we both looked at each other and my sister will hear this and she'll be fine with this. And we were like,
Okay, now we have to deal with Joe, because she's gonna bring, you know, big emotions to this scene. And also, I do feel like this might ruffle some feathers, but I do feel like sometimes in families, there are certain dynamics where you are just closer with one parent. And I adored my dad, and I was a daddy's girl. But my mom and I have this thing, and my sister and my dad have this thing. They're both just stubborn, introverted,
So I knew for her, this was losing her person. So I expected her reaction to be substantially bigger than mine, not in a performative way, but in a, who am I gonna connect with now? Cause I don't connect with mom the same way I connected with dad. I didn't lose my person. I lost my dad. I love him, but I still have the person that I had a stronger, she gets me. So I think working through that together was...
We just had to respect each other. I just moved in with my mom. I stayed with my mom for five days, I think, because I just knew I need to be with her. She needs to be with me. My sister came over and she would go back home because she needed to be with her new husband and she needed to not be in that physical space with us. And we all respected how that looked. And I think it came that way too to planning his memorial service. And we didn't do a funeral. We're not that kind of family. We did a party, but it was...
three months after he passed because we all knew we're not the type of family who like we needed to sit with this for a little bit and keep living our lives and then then move on. ⁓ When it comes to bigger family friends, I think one thing I've really learned is there's a way you can show up that works for you. You feel like you're helping and then there's a way where you actually are helping.
So the way I try to show up for people now that I've experienced this is, I'm just gonna say it, don't send flowers. The amount of caretaking my mom had to do and I had to do with, and here's the thing, it's beautiful. And for the person sending them, it is their gut instinct to say, I love you, I'm thinking of you. But when you have 30 vases of flowers that you either then need to throw away and then you feel bad or keep alive.
Heather McG (25:32)
No.
Ashley DeSanno (25:52)
⁓ So I think I have really learned if you're going to, if you feel the need to show up in a way for someone that you're not close enough to really understand, send something that is usable. Like I got some care baskets from friends that had rollers for your under eyes and like a blanket and things you would use. And I know that it's hard to know what to do.
I think the most helpful, I know you didn't ask this question, but now I'm just on this tangent, but I think the most helpful piece of advice I have been able to give to people because it's what people gave to me was to consistently and constantly let people know you're thinking of them, but take responding to you off the plate. So I got messages from people that said, you know, I'm thinking of you, I absolutely love you. If there's anything you need, please respond.
Heather McG (26:22)
No.
Ashley DeSanno (26:46)
Do not worry about writing back if you don't. Just those types of messages where you knew people were grieving with you, but taking the pressure off of you. Because if you just send someone a message, how are you? That is so incredibly selfish. That's asking them to do something for you. So that's been a big lesson for me.
Heather McG (27:06)
Yeah, you're really making me think about too so often ⁓ Sometimes I think before doing anything. I have started really asking myself am I Like it's almost like giving gifts like am I giving them a gift that I think I want that I want to give or is this something they actually they actually want is this really for them or am I doing it for myself and I think that can come into play here because You're right people sent I remember sent me all kinds of texts and they were well-meaning, but I was overwhelmed I didn't respond to any of them because I couldn't
But then there were the people that, there was somehow a difference in the messages that people were like doing what they were supposed to do when they hear someone's died. And then there were the messages from people that genuinely wanted to support me and wanted to help. And they all said things like that, like, hey, I just wanted to let you know I love you and I'm thinking about you, don't worry about responding. They actually made sure that I knew that so I didn't carry that anymore. So I think that is a really important thing to think about in addition to just don't do the things you don't wanna do.
Don't respond if you don't want to. If people don't like it, that's on them. ⁓ But also on the other side of it, really think about doing things that are helpful to them and not just you doing it because you think you're supposed to.
And I do, and I do kind of want to acknowledge this a little bit. I remember I had one friend and I'm not ever going to forget this. She sent me a note and said, Hey, I heard your dad pass. And I know there was a complicated situation there. And she said, I just want to let you know, I'm sending you a hug. Cause I know the world expects you to react only one way when someone dies and it's really difficult. And the situation is more complicated. And I just felt so seen and loved by her.
I think, so that's just one thing I do want to put out there too. There are a lot of different ways to feel about death, you know, and what your relationship was like with someone before they died. And it's all okay. You know, it is what it is.
Ashley DeSanno (28:58)
There's no wrong, I mean, I guess if you're doing extraordinarily self-destructive behaviors, yes, but otherwise there's not really a wrong way to grieve.
Heather McG (29:08)
And then going easy on yourself and giving yourself grace for that is perhaps the kindest thing you can do. All right, so as a mom, so I think that also complicates it. You've got kids. I know in my dad past, had to help support my kids who were feeling away as well. For you, you've just lost your dad, and then your children have lost their grandfather. How do you navigate both of those things at the same time?
Ashley DeSanno (29:35)
So I'll never forget knowing I needed to tell my kids and predicting their reactions because of exactly who they are. My firstborn is a firstborn textbook, Wikipedia. If you look up what is a firstborn child, like that's him. Secondborn is secondborn. And I brought them downstairs and I just said to them, I have to tell you the saddest thing you've ever heard. And I said, it's gonna make you feel very sad when I tell you.
And I just said, they called him Poppy. I just said, you your Poppy has passed. And my oldest just started kind of tapping his foot on our coffee table. And my youngest just exploded, which is how they should react according to exactly who they are. And I said, you get to plan your day. So what do you want your day to look like now that you have this news? And my oldest said, I want to go to school, which I knew he would. He loves patterns, predictability, staying with routine. And my youngest,
said, I don't want to go to school. And my husband took him golfing, which makes sense. I think having kids made it initially, like breaking the news to them was the hardest thing I've ever had to do in my life. But it was also the world's best distraction because I thought, how lucky are we that they had someone they loved so much that they feel this sadness? I think the hardest balancing part.
was feeling like I needed to take care of my mom, I needed to take care of myself, but I also knew my kids were in a tremendous amount of pain and my dad, know, my dad, not my dad, my husband, my husband has this incredibly estranged relationship with his dad and was very close with my dad and he almost got shoved out of the picture. Like you gotta take care of the kids, I have to take care of myself and my mom. So it was four pretty messy days, but.
I think with kids, our biggest moving forward is just we constantly talk about my dad. My son always asks, have you had a dream about pop lately? And he tells me all the things he has felt with him and they have pictures of him in his room and we just constantly keep his memory alive by talking about him. And I don't know in the big picture how my kids will look back on this and see how it may have impacted them.
I can't say that yet. I can say my oldest is harder to talk with about it just because he's like me. I'll say, know, do you want to talk about Pop? How are you feeling? Fine. My youngest will still cry. And he looks for, he's more of a, I saw a hawk that was Pop coming to say, like, he looks for signs. Anytime he sees a deer, a hawk or whatever, he's like, Pop came to see me. My oldest is just a little bit more like me where he's like, he died. That was really sad.
We talk about him, we keep it going.
Heather McG (32:36)
Coming out of one of life's biggest endings, I've got big question for you. What do know for sure?
Ashley DeSanno (32:44)
I know for sure two things. A woman's intuition's never wrong. I know that. I know it just because of those two years of anticipatory grief. people, I saw my friend Becky at my sister's wedding and I said, my dad's gonna pass within a year. And my mom would say like, I don't remember the doctor saying these things. And I just,
I just feel like your gut is not wrong and you need to listen to it. Those final two years I spent so much time with him doing nothing. Anytime he wanted to just stop by my house, I was like, stop by, come on. So I, even more now than I used to, listen to that feeling, whether it's good, bad, ugly, whatever it is, I listen to it. And then I also know, and I would love to hear your take on this, I'm not religious in any way. That's a whole podcast for another day.
But I do believe there is something and by something I don't necessarily mean an afterlife. Like I don't know if my dad's out there and he can see us and he's, I don't know what that looks like. I do believe death is final, but I also very firmly believe your body is just a physical thing that holds who you are because I,
I know this will sound crazy and my mom says it too, but he's here. He's everywhere. And I just didn't know how that would feel. But sometimes I think, should I be more sad because he's gone, but I don't feel like he's gone. I can't hug him. I can't hear his laugh, but we feel him all the time. So I really firmly stand in. I don't know what there is, but there's something that keeps their spirit.
around.
Heather McG (34:44)
Yeah, I mean, I'm not religious at all. I grew up religious, but I walked away and now in my adulthood, I'm all the way at the other end of the spectrum. Pretty atheist, I would even say. But I do believe there's a universe that connects us. There's something there. I mean, you can't quantify emotions, but I have them. You can't quantify love, but I have it. You feel connected to people. It is there. And I also, you know, for anyone who's been around someone who has passed,
It's not like sleeping. It feels different. That spirit is not in that body anymore. I don't even know how to describe it. And I know that's something that you experienced as well. They're not in there anymore. ⁓ And I know for me, don't know where they, and I don't believe in heaven or hell either. I do kind of ascribe to, you're gonna laugh at me. My kids love the movie Coco. And you know, and in...
Ashley DeSanno (35:39)
yeah.
Heather McG (35:40)
Mexican culture and your ancestors and part of the thought of it is people are still with you as long as you remember them and So I really take that to heart and even though I had a bad relationship with my dad I loved him, you know, even if that was not reciprocated and I hang on to that part So I yeah aside from heaven or hell which I don't believe in There is something that binds the universe together and it's not something you can see or quantify, but I know it exists
I think most people know it exists and they call it, know, whatever resonates with them to call it that. But I agree. You know, when someone dies, they're not in their body anymore, that is so clear. But I do think about where they go and you do still feel it, even though they're not here in body form anymore. Early cession is what I think.
Ashley DeSanno (36:26)
Yeah.
And it's not something I had ever felt until he passed. It's one of those things too, you can't explain to people until you are in it and then you kind of get it. It's also like how you can't tell someone what being a parent is like and then you're in it and you're like, whoa, this is different. Once you lose someone really close to you, you just feel it and it's just a very different experience.
Heather McG (36:46)
You
Yeah, I mean my brother passed away when I was younger and I don't feel like he ever left. mean obviously I haven't hung out with him in a really long time, but I have, you know, we, you know, I love Josh. That was a different relationship there. Yeah, I don't know. The whole idea is fascinating to me and there are certain things that think it's okay not to understand and that is one of those things that I don't understand, but I...
Well, Ashley, I want to thank you so much for being with us here today. Before we go though, do you want to share if anyone wants to connect with you online, where they can find you and kind of talk through that? Because I want to make sure people can connect with you.
Ashley DeSanno (37:32)
Yeah, so I have a couple of different spots. I have Lots of Miles, which is my Instagram, my TikTok. I respond to DMs more on Instagram. I don't really look at TikTok. And then my best friend and I have our podcast called Books with Your Besties, where it's not just about books, so check it out. And we have our small business, The Creepy Book Club. So if you're into reading and hanging out with other women, usually in their 30s, 40s, and 50s, we're definitely the place for you.
Heather McG (37:59)
awesome. All right, well thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you to everyone who's out there listening to the Happily Never After where today really talked about that. Sometimes the end is just the beginning. I hope today was helpful to anyone navigating grief in this way. I want thank everybody and hope you have a good week.
Ashley DeSanno (38:19)
Thank you so much.