Childfree After Infertility with Carrie Hauskens
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Description
Carrie Hauskens is here to talk about why she is happily childfree after a long journey through infertility. After surviving treatments, surrogacy, and devastating loss, Carrie has redefined her life's plan, and it turns out, life today is pretty great. She's sharing all that she has learned through this experience with incredible candor, emotional meaning, and the kind of humor you develop after making it through the deep trenches of life. This can't miss conversation is for anyone who has found themselves making a hard left after life didn't turn out the way they had originally planned. Sometimes the new destination is happier than you could have imagined.
About Carrie Hauskens
Carrie is a freelance writer and MFA student based in Northern California. Her expertise is writing about infertility and the many tangents that radiate from that experience. Her trademark is vulnerable and authentic writing.
Follow Carrie on Instagram or TikTok at @bloomingwithcare
Read more from Carrie at Blooming with Care on Substack
About Heather McG
Heather is an Emmy and Cannes Lion Grand Prix-winning producer, author, and founder of McG Media. She is the creator of the happily never after, a 360-degree project that explores how life’s endings can lead to a new beginning. A twin mom, endurance athlete, and devoted Trekkie, sitting still has never been her forté.
Transcript
Heather McG (00:20)
Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Happily Never After, a podcast where we explore how life's endings can lead to a new beginning. If you enjoy the show, don't forget to rate, review, and follow us wherever you are listening or watching the show today. My guest today is Carrie Hauskins, and I'm so excited to welcome her to the show. She is a freelance writer and MFA student based in Northern California.
Her expertise is in writing about infertility, the many tangents that radiate from that experience, and today we are talking about being happily child-free after infertility. Carrie, I'm so glad to have you here today.
Carrie Hauskens (00:54)
Hi, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited and it's an honor to be able to talk about this.
Heather McG (01:00)
Yeah, I've been really looking forward to having you on. everyone, I was telling Carrie before we got started, I have been looking for the right person to come on to talk about their journey in this space. So I'm so excited this worked out and that we found each other. All right, why don't we start at the beginning. For anyone who doesn't know who you are, isn't familiar with your journey, you went through an eight year experience with fertility treatments and walking through infertility. Can you share a bit about your story?
Carrie Hauskens (01:13)
Thank you!
Yes. So when my husband and I got married, we decided to start trying right away. We joke that like even on our first date, I was like, do you want kids? Cause if you don't, I'm moving on. And he wasn't as like set on it as I was, but he was like, yeah, I could have kids with you. And, um, we, so we tried, we started trying right away and most of our friends were getting married around the same time. I think I was 31. So it was that time. And, um,
We tried naturally for five years and nothing happened. No pregnancy, anything. And we watched most of our friends go on to become parents easily. And I talked about like dealing with infertility, but I kept on, I kept a smile, you know, and I was just like, I'm here to support everybody. I know my turn's coming. And around the fifth year, we kind of agreed that maybe there was an issue for a very long time. I never even acknowledged there was an issue because that would make it real.
And we went to see a doctor and they were like, you absolutely qualify for fertility treatments at this stage. So we became great candidates for IVF. We jumped right in. did one egg retrieval and I got pregnant right away. And then I had a miscarriage. And then I think we waited like one more cycle and then we went right back into it. And ⁓ I got pregnant again and I carried that baby for eight months.
and I developed a rare liver disease called cholestasis of pregnancy. ⁓ Itching is the number one sign. If anybody is ever pregnant with itching, go to the doctor. And I went right away and I had a very severe case and it ended up resulting in taking my daughter's life. And I delivered her stillborn in May of 2019. After that happened, literally everything changed for me and we still had two frozen embryos. So we wanted to keep
trying and we got to work with an epic surrogate that was like an old friend from school when I was a kid that came out and ⁓ she became pregnant twice, had two miscarriages. During this whole thing, we had started the adoption process, but after she had her second miscarriage, I kind of did like an audit on my life of like, how are we feeling? And it wasn't good. So,
we, my husband and I decided to stop trying. And since then it has been a lot happier, like surprisingly happy. And we do put a lot of attention into that, but I never really expected this happiness to come from that because for so long I was like, motherhood is the only way I'm going to be happy. And I'm not a mom and I'm super happy. So I, I don't know. It's, it's a sweet surprise that I'm very thankful for.
Heather McG (04:18)
Going through infertility treatment is so hard. And for many couples, go through it for, and that's the thing, it's not quick, right? It's like year over year over year. And I think it really comes home to you how little you can control a lot of things. What was your experience with that? And how did you, what was your experience with that in terms of controlling outcomes and managing that process?
Carrie Hauskens (04:26)
No.
⁓ that word.
It was not chill. I was always like, control is easy and I have it. And like the illusion of control with IVF at least was very visual because like there's color coding on the calendars and everything's timed. And it's so like, well, I'm just going to follow all these steps and do all the directions and I'll be in total control. And I remember with our first miscarriage, the doctor saying to me,
this was out of your control. And I was like, it's very interesting that you use that word. And he was like, yes, like this isn't my first time having this conversation with somebody. And I know that control is a huge part of that. And I got very wrapped up in it. And it actually, especially after my daughter died, like the, I grasped onto anything I could control because I felt so out of control. And many times in therapy, my therapist would be like, so you're
really getting into controlling all of the food you're eating and weighing everything out. And it's becoming a new focus and not maybe in the healthiest way. And so I had to kind of explore ways to control that we're healthy because my food became another just slippery slope, but it was like, well, I could organize my cupboard or I had to come back to the basics with a lot of that feeling because I felt so out of control. And like I said, you're following all the directions.
and then it doesn't work and you're like, well, what can I do? Which is kind of a scary feeling.
Heather McG (06:09)
Yeah. Well, and two, now that you have a little bit of hindsight at this point, when you look back, what was your mental health journey through that time?
Carrie Hauskens (06:13)
Mm-hmm.
For the first five years of us trying naturally, it wasn't very good. And like I said before, I just hid behind of like, I'm fine. Everything's fine. I'll just focus on my career and I'll keep moving forward. And I developed depression and anxiety. I remember talking, I never was diagnosed during the time, but I met a doctor years later and I was talking to her and she was like, ⁓ you are, absolutely. She's like, I can diagnose you right now about that. And I was like, but it didn't, I seemed okay. ⁓
Heather McG (06:29)
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (06:48)
function that we continue to do throughout it, right? You still have to get up and pay the bills. And I just kind of relied so much on future me that I really never sat with the now and was not really able to like feel it, which is funny even thinking about that because I got very into meditation so much so that I became like a certified teacher in it, but I still wasn't really tapping into the now. Like it was very much like, well, I'll be fine.
Heather McG (07:00)
Mmm.
Carrie Hauskens (07:15)
once I'm a mother. My life will start once that happens. And I was living during that time and I wasn't living very well. So I think towards the end of our infertility journey, because I had different therapists throughout the time, I had a therapist that had specialized in people with infertility and she was such ⁓ like a beautiful aspect to my healing process because she was able to like, ⁓ how did you feel about these specific
medications and just the way she knew how to word things was it opened me up in a whole new way of like, you kind of get it. She did have kids, but like, she's still under, like she went to the same clinic I went to, she knew the doctors I did. So it was very relatable in a way that I didn't know I needed. And I know that's not always accessible, but I think with the right therapist, at least for me, it like cracked me open in the best way to be like, no, I can be sad. I can be upset.
and I can still move forward.
Heather McG (08:15)
You you said something that I think might be good to talk about for a moment. You talked about, you know, you were feeling like when I'm a mom, can, you know, my life can move on or when I'm a mom, this will happen. And, you know, this is anecdotal. I don't know if this is actually true, but I feel like most people have something in their life where like, well, when this happens, I'll be happy. When this happens, I can, you know, like a lot of us play that negotiation game. What did you learn about
Carrie Hauskens (08:30)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Heather McG (08:44)
What did you learn about that? For me, I think about learning to be happy in the moment. But for you, how did you handle that?
Carrie Hauskens (08:49)
Yes.
Looking back now, I think about lot about joy and how I wasn't really allowing myself to experience joy. Like I was almost like saving it for my child. And I assumed joy was these like milestones, like these life big milestones. But then like, you know, I got married, I graduated college, I got my dream job. And then it was like, well, am I never gonna have joy again because I'm not having these like big moments. And from
Like during the time I was not open to it, but now I think about like, well, I want joy every day. And I have come back to finding these sparkly moments that are really small in my day. And it's not like when this next big thing happens. And that's been like a tangible way for me to kind of focus on the daily ways to make myself happy. Cause I mean,
It's a big ask. Also, it's like a big ask on a child of like, well, you're gonna make me happy. Like that's not really how that's gonna work most likely. And I put a lot of eggs in that basket and when it didn't work out, I felt like the ground had come out from underneath. So was like, well, now what am I supposed to do? And being able to come back to those little basic things has like kind of helped me build myself back up and give me a foundation that I can work on every day.
Heather McG (10:07)
And I almost think like thinking that way, you know, about the when this happens, you know, this will be good. I almost feel like it's a way to avoid your feelings about what's going on right now.
Carrie Hauskens (10:14)
Oh, for sure.
Yes. Like I can just shove it down here because I'll, I'll deal with it. Well, then we'll even like, I was thinking about my first miscarriage and I was like, well, I don't even want to deal with it. I just want to get pregnant again and we'll move past it. And though we don't, I don't have to worry about it. But then when I was pregnant again, I had this like cloud over me the whole time I was scared because I was pregnant after loss. And it was like this, I didn't know that was going to happen. And it was like, Oh, I'm really not dealing with the feelings, but I kept.
Heather McG (10:30)
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (10:44)
just pushing it down because I didn't know anybody who had done this before. So didn't have any like representation. I didn't see anybody doing what I was doing. I felt like I was kind of flying solo.
Heather McG (10:55)
Yeah, well, and when you and your husband decided, you know what, we're done, we're gonna move on, how did you feel when you made that decision?
Carrie Hauskens (11:03)
I felt very decisive. My husband and I were actually just talking about this yesterday because he was like, you were set in it. I, was the day that our, the surrogate we worked with had a miscarriage. And I remember everybody in the room was really upset. Everyone was crying and I was just numb. I was so used to bad news that I was like, I don't, I'm not having a response. Like I remember my mom being like, are you okay? And I was like, I don't think so, but I don't know how to express that. And I came home.
my husband met me because it was during COVID so he couldn't come to the doctor. And ⁓ I was like, I don't think I want to do this anymore. And he said, well, we've always put up these boundaries. Like we weren't going to do IVF. We weren't going to work with the surrogate. We weren't going to start the adoption process, but we did all of them. So maybe we sit with this for like 24 hours. And I was like, I just knew. And I was like, fine, I'll sit for 24 hours. And the next day I was like, I still feel this way. I just.
Heather McG (11:55)
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (11:58)
I knew something had to change and I had changed so many other parts of my life, like my diet, my work schedule, my yard or something. And I was like, well, I haven't changed this one really big thing that seems, everything seems to be focused on. And when I was like, well, I'm desperate at this point to feel something and I think I might have to make the call. And ⁓
Like I had said at the beginning, my husband wasn't like so set on kids. Like he was like, I think I could be happy with just the both of us. And I was like, I don't, but let's try. And then now I'm like, oh no, I totally get what you're talking about. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Heather McG (12:41)
Yeah, like I agree with you now going back to our first date. We are on the same page.
Now today and I love the way that you talk about this today. You are happily child free. Can you talk to us about that?
Carrie Hauskens (12:54)
So I put a lot of intention into that. mean, it was scary making that choice, because I didn't know what that meant. And again, as I mentioned before, I didn't have lot of representation. So I didn't know, what did people do? When somebody asked me, you must have so much free time. And it's like, mean, yes, and? Because I didn't know what I was going to do with my life. But ⁓ I changed my career, which was a very big one, because I was a teacher for 10 years, and I thought,
⁓ What do really want to do? And I had been thinking about leaving teaching for a while and I was like, well, now's the time. Like this is, you have the opportunity to do it now. And I feel like I start putting intention into things that I didn't necessarily know I was going to be able to do if I had a child. Like teaching was a very stable career, but I've turned to writing and I have the freedom to do that now. And being able to like make these new life goals and specifically like new traditions, especially with the holidays coming up, my husband and I talk a lot about like,
well, these holidays are often very kid-centered and that can be really hard for me. And so we were like, well, let's do things that maybe we thought we wanted to do with the kid, but put our own little twist on it. And so we have new traditions that we started and that felt like, I was like, well, I don't wanna do that. Like I wanna do the old traditions. But then when we called it and it was like, well, now I think I have to start doing that. And I kind of had to get.
creative and explore like, do I really want? What do I really want to do? And recently, I've been doing things that like, I thought I would share with my child, like watching old Disney movies or like going to the park. There's like a kite day around us. And like, I've been doing that with just my husband and I, but I was so, it took me a long time to be able to want to do that. But I was like, well, I think I'm kind of ready to like try those things.
in a joyful way without, I mean, the grief is there, but it's nothing like it was before. And that's been kind of fun.
Heather McG (14:52)
so what do you think about the idea of sitting with grief? Because I think a lot of times we think very linear, in a linear manner about life, you know, where a lot of times it's actually multi-track. What do you think about the idea of sitting with grief?
Carrie Hauskens (14:55)
Yes. Yes.
Very much so.
I kind of love it. It's a way for me to love my story and ⁓ my daughter and the dreams that we had. And it's a way that I can be very intentional about it. I remember when I first met my husband, his best friend had died a few years prior to us dating, so I never got to meet his best friend. But my husband, the way he talked about his friend, I assumed he was still alive. And I had said one day, like, I can't wait to meet your friend. And he was like,
Oh, my friend died. And like, I didn't know, but the way that he talked about it was this like, it's still a part of me. And this person is still here all of the time in different ways. And that's, I've kind of picked up on that of like, we talk to our stillborn daughter, Clementine every night. And we also like acknowledge that like Christmas morning is hard. Like we thought we would share that with kids, but now we're, we have our own new traditions with it. And so I think.
tapping into it daily, even if possible. It was really hard at first, but now it's like a way to keep it moving. So I don't want to get it stuck. Cause I know that like, if I don't sit with those hard feelings or like, if like it's, it's a special anniversary date or something, and I just ignore it, it absolutely comes up later, usually in inappropriate ways. And I'm like crying in the grocery store thinking, I know why I'm doing this. I didn't really like, you know, take the day for myself or try to
feel sad or not even like feel sad, allow whatever thing needs to come up. mean, usually it's sadness though.
Heather McG (16:41)
Yeah, well, there's, you're making me think about, there's a, you know, I used to be a TV producer and there's someone I produced who had lost their child in a traumatic event. And we were talking about grief and the way she talked about it was, you know, she was like, it never goes away. She said, but what I do and the way I think about it is it does transform. And she said, I like fill that hole in my heart with love.
Carrie Hauskens (16:57)
Mm-hmm.
Heather McG (17:05)
⁓ I try and work through connecting with the people who love me, my family, my friends, and just create a lot of love around that event. And she said, you know, I'm never not going to feel grief over it, but it has also enabled me to create a lot of stronger connections and love with the people that I'm still in community with. And I thought that was a really beautiful way to talk about it too.
Carrie Hauskens (17:09)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Yeah,
I love that because it doesn't go away. And I've had people be like, when am I going to get over this? And I'm like, well, for me, so far it's never, but I don't know you and it's different for everybody. But I like to think that we're all going to deal with this at some point in our life ⁓ because that's what it is to be human. The people around us are going to die. And it's different with different people, but it's still grief. once I change the narrative to like, love my story around this,
Heather McG (17:35)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (17:56)
it made me want to love my grief. Like it was like, can be proud that this is my story. And once I just kind of started telling myself that over and over, that's kind of what it became.
Heather McG (18:06)
Well, and this goes right into my next question for you. You have, it's kind of a cheeky photo, and I love it. I really love the vibe that you're putting out there with this photo. On your website, you have a photo, and you found a mug somewhere that says, infertility is my superpower. Can you talk about that?
Carrie Hauskens (18:08)
You
Yep.
Yes, and I
wish they still sold the mug. They don't anymore. Otherwise, I would be plugging it. But I remember the first time I saw that, was like, that's not that's not chill. I don't like it is not a superpower. And that like, I saw I'm sure I saw it on Instagram and was like, OK. But then I started to sit with that, like flipping the narrative of it of like, what if this is a good thing? And this was when I was still trying. And I was like, what if this is like a good?
thing that I can own and like really take pride in and I bought it and I like put the mug away. didn't even like put it in my cupboard. I was like, nope, you can't even have it. I think it's even right behind me right now. But now I like have it out all the time because it helped me be like, no, this is the hand I'm dealt with. ⁓ I'm gonna love it because I get this one life and I kind of want it to be a good one. So I may as well utilize what I have and
I'm infertile and so is my husband. So let's play up to that and kind of owning it in a way that makes me feel good about it. But I wanna really acknowledge that I was so uncomfortable the first time I saw that. I also remember one of the first times I saw you are worthy with or without a child and I was like, I remember being like, am I? I had to think about it. And then it was like, am I? Is infertility a superpower?
Heather McG (19:28)
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (19:40)
I mean, as a writer, feel like words have so much meaning in that way of like, you can open up something in yourself. And now I'm like, no, like I'm infertile and it's kind of a beautiful thing.
Heather McG (19:49)
Well, and you're making me think about too, you one of the things that transformed my life and the bad things that have happened in my life and like, or when things didn't turn out the way I had originally planned. And when I have struggled with those things in my life, that something that really transformed that process for me was creating a new definition for acceptance. Acceptance doesn't mean it's okay, but it does mean you understand that it is what it is and it's time to create a new path for yourself.
Carrie Hauskens (20:12)
Mm-hmm.
Heather McG (20:18)
What does acceptance look like for you or what role has it played for you?
Carrie Hauskens (20:22)
It's played a big one because I felt like once I accepted that maybe I don't, I won't have children. ⁓ what kind of person am I going to want to be? And that was kind of the pathway that I took of like, well, I always assumed I would be this Pinterest mom and have all these like fun little parties and get togethers for my kid. And that's not what's happening. So I'm very much of the train of thought now of like, well, I can still do that by still acknowledging where I come from.
but in a way like now we host a lot. our house is always having some sort of dinner party or something. And it's a nice ritual or like just way to turn it into what I kind of always wanted. Again, it's kind of the hand I was dealt. And at least for me, once I can accept something, I can kind of make the steps to move forward. Okay, like this is where we're at. Again, like coming back to the moment of where we are now. How do I move forward? What goals do I need to make?
And that has been ⁓ another way to build this foundation and for my future. And it's kind of fun to get creative with that.
Heather McG (21:26)
Yeah, for sure. Well, and two, know, something I think about too is your story. I love the way you write about it online. You're such a beautiful writer. And you have also been very open with the fact that you have struggled to find other people, you know, that have stories like yours talking about it. Why do you think that is?
Carrie Hauskens (21:35)
Thank you.
Mm-hmm.
I know a lot of people like don't want to talk about it. I've met a few people like in real life and they're like, we're kind of like hush hush about it. And I'm like, ⁓ I remember one of the first persons that I knew that told me they dealt with infertility. And the way she told me is she came into my office and closed all my doors and whispered it. And I was like, nobody's in here. And she was like, well, I would never want anyone to know that I went through this. And in that moment, I remember thinking, really? Because I feel like if you would have told me six months ago, not that it's your job to tell me.
But if this would have been more of a conversation, I wouldn't have felt so isolated and I wouldn't have been like so alone in it. And I remember it was just shocking, especially even the way she delivered it to where was like, is it still a secret? I feel like it's still a secret. And I'm a yapper. I'm gonna talk through all the things. That's just how I am. So once I started talking about it, people would come to me, but still in a very like quiet way. And I was like, ⁓
Heather McG (22:17)
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (22:41)
It felt like there was still a lot of shame wrapped up in it, which I get, it's not a good feeling. But I kind of wanted to be like, well, I want to dive deeper into that. And with that, I found so many more people that were like, my gosh, this has happened to me too. And I'm like, ⁓ thank goodness I'm not alone in this.
Heather McG (22:51)
Yeah.
Okay, we gotta talk about this because, okay, so on this podcast, the people only come on this podcast if they're like, I'm ready to talk about this, right? Because we're about some tough stuff quite often. And I think you are very much onto something because this is also how I feel. I am also a yapper and I really am truly okay talking about anything. And it's been a big part of, to your point exactly, shedding my shame over the way I grew up or things that have happened.
Carrie Hauskens (23:01)
You
Tuts.
Mm-hmm.
Heather McG (23:28)
I also think yappin' is how you heal. Like to your point, otherwise you think you're all alone or that like you're the one person the universe has decided to make this happen to you and then you start talking, you start to realize, and I know it sounds so basic, but I think in our hearts we don't know this. This stuff happens to everyone in some form. Something really big will happen and if you keep it to yourself and you don't talk about it, you know, everyone's different.
Carrie Hauskens (23:32)
Yes.
Yes.
Heather McG (23:55)
But I also think there's so much love and value and healing and connection when you start talking about these things because you start to realize you aren't alone. And then sometimes you meet someone that has figured it out, like figured out a path and you get inspired and you start thinking about what that looks like for you.
Carrie Hauskens (23:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely. It's been such a gift to be able to share my story and it like shines this beautiful light on the spot that I felt a lot of shame about. And I've met some of my best friends online through talking like this and I'm so thankful for it.
Heather McG (24:27)
Yeah. Okay, so I want to read, we can't go through this without reading a little bit of Carrie's beautiful writing. I love this passage from one of your essays. It wasn't until my mid 30s that I stopped wondering if I measured up enough. Not so much with art specifically, but more so as if I were art myself. I was fixated on motherhood, believing it to be the key to a happy life, a life full of purpose, and it consumed me. Month after month, the judgment grew with each negative pregnancy test.
The shame silently broke me and I kept it to myself until I couldn't. Very on point with our conversation. I think infertility can easily become so all consuming. Can you talk a little bit about what this passage meant to you?
Carrie Hauskens (25:09)
Yes, I was an art teacher at the time and it was this really beautiful experience. Maybe my favorite teaching experience I've had because my main job in that role was to create a safe space for kids to essentially fail and create. Like, you know, we would teach them technique and then it was like, okay, do take it on your own. And a lot of kids had a really hard time with that. And I thought, yeah, I get
Sometimes it's scary to maybe step out of your comfort zone and try to do something that you're not comfortable with. I couldn't believe it took us five years to get pregnant and science. Like that was wild to me. I didn't. Yes. Yes. Like it was this wild experience. And so the process of creating became this drive for me, whether it was creating a human.
Heather McG (25:48)
with everything going on, the robots are taking over the world and they cannot get me pregnant.
Carrie Hauskens (26:03)
or creating an art piece in class. And I started to see these connections of like, have to be in this space to feel safe enough to do that. And obviously that space is different for everybody. But in that space, there is a lot of space for failure. And that's really scary, especially like doing it on a platform, doing it in a classroom, showing your peers. And I started realizing that like, well, what if the process of it is the art? What if I'm the art because I'm showing up
still, I used to think that becoming a mother was going to be this life changing thing. And then I realized the process of trying to become a mother became my life changing moment. And I didn't see that coming. And so I had to kind of shift my narrative around it of like, what if this is the art? What if I'm the art? One of my friends recently said, you're like a walking altar. And I was like, is that the best compliment I've ever had? Because she was like, you
put all of these intentions into your life daily and you take that altar with you and you show up in a space that's open and I love talking with people about deep subjects right away. I mean, I can do small talk, but I can also get deep real fast. And I am that way because of infertility, because I was like, I kept myself so quiet and did not wanna show that I was trying and did not wanna...
show the creation part. I just wanted to be like, look, here's my baby. And now we can finally start our happy life. And that's not what happened. So I thought I still want a happy life. And so I love the idea of the process being the art.
Heather McG (27:37)
that's beautiful. You are really making me, I'm like thinking about some things too, how it's interesting like when we don't talk about things and then it like, it like spills out, you know, those feelings around, you know, failure. And I put that in quotes and things like that. When things don't work out, maybe that's a better way to put it, put out. Cause I remember I was going through a lot in the infertility area and I was in the middle of an active miscarriage. And for some reason I thought it was a good idea to go to work.
Carrie Hauskens (27:38)
Thank you.
Yes. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heather McG (28:05)
And
everyone I worked with had no idea this was going on. Cause like you, was like, everything's great. You know, and I wore the long sleeves, which you know what that's about. Anyone going through fertility treatments knows about the long sleeves. Cause you look like you're maybe doing recreational drugs in a bad way. And I remember going and I, I almost passed out in the bathroom and I was having a whole event.
Carrie Hauskens (28:08)
Mm-hmm. Everything's great. Yep. Yep. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
⁓
Heather McG (28:27)
And
I remember I walked into my boss's office and I was like, I need to go home. I'm like, I was like a dead woman. And I said, I need to go home. I'm having a miscarriage. And she was like, my God, why are you here? Go home and don't come back until you are really ready. I'm sure you have had an experience like that.
Carrie Hauskens (28:38)
I mean, I'm laughing, but it's so real. Yes!
Yes. And like I was somewhat open, but also I didn't want to be open about the failure part. Like I was open about trying like IVF, like we're doing this thing. And I thought IVF meant baby, but it's so like on brand for me to do something like that of like, it's fine. I can show up. And especially as a teacher, like I wanted to be there for my students. And my, my principal was like, I think you need some time off. I remember that was such a huge, like, I was like, you've never said that to me before.
Heather McG (29:12)
When your boss tells you to go home, you know that you do need to go home.
Carrie Hauskens (29:14)
Yes! Yes! Yes!
Heather McG (29:19)
I love this quote from you that, is the answer to everything. Can you say more about that?
Carrie Hauskens (29:24)
I think that the idea of becoming very empathetic through this whole process has really given me a lot of love for other people. And I kind of just assume that someone's dealing with something not so good when they're showing up in a weird way, especially in public. And I have learned to give them and myself a lot of grace for those moments because I went to work after my miscarriage too and was like, it's fine. Everything's fine. And it was not fine. And there is this like,
connection in that loss of grief and the love that has shown up because of that is wild. Because once I opened up and made space for love, especially in my grief and sadness, I was given it back in so many new ways that I had no idea and from people I didn't expect. That was a very interesting one of like, a lot of my close friends didn't know how to show up for me, but a lot of people on the outserts of my bubble were showing up with food and
saying, I'm here for you, do you wanna go for a walk? And I didn't know how to make space for that love, because I was like, whoa, we're not that kind of friend, are we? But it was like, why can't we be? Like, what am I fighting against this? It's because I'm sad that that other person didn't show up. And so continually coming back to that, even today, like when someone cuts me off when I'm driving, I'm like, I throw up a peace sign of like, we're probably fine, this isn't about me kind of thing.
Heather McG (30:51)
Well, and I love to, know, one of your, you know, I think everyone should go read your essays because I think they're very beautifully written. There's another essay where you are talking about almost a character, it's you, but a character called Dark Carrie. And it kind of explores the way that we talk to ourselves and our ideas. You know, we've talked about shame quite a bit, but a lot of it is like that dark side to us. Can you talk to us about who Dark Carrie is and how do you actually embrace her as part of your identity?
Carrie Hauskens (30:56)
No. Thank you.
⁓ my husband is very happy this is coming up because he coined the name dark Carrie. I wasn't really aware of it to be honest, but he would say like, wow, when that sun goes down, you have interesting questions of like, why are we still married or do people like me? And like, he's like, what has happened? Yes. and I think that dark Carrie has a place because I'm clearly having some feelings.
Heather McG (31:40)
Why am I here?
Carrie Hauskens (31:50)
⁓ so I like that there's a name for it. It's an, it's a way to be like, this probably like, isn't really me right now. This is a part of me that needs, she needs to be heard because she's crying before bed kind of for no reason, but there is a reason underlying it. So with a lot of dark carry moments, I journal a lot. And then the next morning I'll come back to it to be like, was this really something that was real? Most of the time it's no.
It was not like I, the anxiety is still here. Like I still have these anxious moments. so allowing a space for Dark Carrie and not being like, she can't have a say. I think it was like Elizabeth Gilbert talked about, like fear is allowed to be in the car, but fear can't drive the car. And you can hear like, fear gets a say, like they're there, like we have fear for a reason, right? But you don't get to make, tell us which way we're going. So like, I can hear you.
Heather McG (32:38)
Mmm, yeah.
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (32:48)
but you don't get to drive the car. And I think about that a lot of like, well, this is clearly a part of who I am. I'm also like deep in perimenopause. So like, that's also a part of the anxiety. And it's like, I don't want to shut it out because I've shut out feelings before and clearly they came out in a weird way. And so I want to give space. A lot of therapy helps too, but it's just nice to be able to have a stability right now, at least to be like, okay, I can.
Heather McG (32:58)
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (33:16)
acknowledge dark Keri is here. I'm going to give her a space, but I'm not going to like totally believe her until the morning and see with what I wrote down is believable. And 99 % of the time it was like, wow, Nope, that's not real.
Heather McG (33:30)
Yeah, we all have those moments. it, yeah, I think it's such an interesting idea, because we all have that shadow side. And I think maybe the immediate reaction is, our shadow sides are bad. But our shadow side is also how, you know, the things like, you know, like I think about there's an author that I read once, and she was talking about how as women, sometimes there's this idea of being a bitch. Don't be a bitch. Don't act like that, your tone. And she said, well, you know what?
Carrie Hauskens (33:36)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Heather McG (33:59)
Sometimes that bitch needs to get stuff done. Sometimes that bitch needs to tell the contractors to finish her bathroom. you know, and that like that is not like thinking about in that binary way of good or bad. To your point, they just can't steer the ship. They can't drive the car. Let's see how many metaphors we can come up with. They can't be in charge.
Carrie Hauskens (34:02)
totes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Heather McG (34:19)
But they are
Carrie Hauskens (34:19)
Yes.
Heather McG (34:20)
a passenger and they don't need to be, ⁓ they actually do serve a purpose. Those emotions are there for a reason and you just need to embrace them at the right moments. So I love that.
Carrie Hauskens (34:27)
Absolutely.
Yes.
Yes.
Heather McG (34:32)
⁓ Okay, so what would you like to say to other people who are out there going through their own fertility journey?
Carrie Hauskens (34:41)
I think first and foremost, give yourself grace no matter where you're at in the situation. I was very hard on myself, like ridiculously hard on myself, especially now that I'm writing about it again. And even the way I'm writing, I see how hard on myself that I was. And it's so, it's such an uncomfortable, scary time. Weird things are going to come up. We're probably going to respond in weird ways and finding
grace for yourself is gonna be a huge factor. I also, can never stop talking about therapy. Therapy changed my life since I was a child. And having someone outside your bubble, not your friends, your friends can be there, but your friends aren't your therapists. Having someone outside your bubble to help you build tools. And if the therapist doesn't feel right, find a new therapist. it can be uncomfortable, but having someone that really you bond with,
It changed everything for me. I remember when my therapist asked me, what would your life be like without kids? And I was like, I hate that question. And she was like, that's fine. You can hate it. Let's talk about it. And I like drew up this beautiful life and I was like, my gosh, that doesn't seem like a scary thing. And it was one of the first times that I really thought about it where I was like, wow, that could be a good thing. And I don't know if I would have been able to do that without her, not in such a healthy way that she presented it. Finding a therapist changed everything.
Heather McG (36:05)
And then thinking back over your fertility journey, what would you, is there anything about that you regret? Is there anything that like you wish you would have done differently? You know, cause it's funny, so much of it is out of your control, but I think sometimes you like, you almost debrief it when you look back on it. Do you have any regrets?
Carrie Hauskens (36:23)
I have a hard time with the word regret because I feel like where I've been, it helped me be who I am. But I do sometimes think how it would have been if we would have taken a break. Like if we would have stopped trying for even a year, but timing was everything. And I kept, I just felt so far behind that I was like, well, we're already behind. We can't stop now. And I see people take breaks and I think, wow, I wonder what that would have been like for me. Even if it
Heather McG (36:25)
Yeah.
Mm.
Carrie Hauskens (36:49)
didn't end up in a child, but if it ended up giving me more of a space to like have more of myself back because I was so full-forced, laser focused on becoming a mother, nothing else really mattered. And that's not really a healthy way to be living for almost a decade. And yeah, I think about what that might've been like, but yeah.
Heather McG (37:15)
Yeah, I hear you. have a hard time with the idea of regret too, because you're right. It makes you who you are today. And life would be real boring if everything went perfectly all the time. So it's kind of, it's a hard way to think about it. Because you also, think most of time, do what you know. hopefully we grow and evolve over time and you make the best decision you can with the information you have and with who you are. And maybe you would have made a different decision if it would have happened five years later. But it didn't.
Carrie Hauskens (37:23)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Yeah,
yeah, I love that idea of saying that like, do what you know, because I think that that is how we operate as humans. And it's not always a good thing, but it's not always a bad thing.
Heather McG (37:49)
What are some of the biggest lessons you feel like looking back that you learned through that process?
Carrie Hauskens (37:56)
I think again, coming back to empathy right now is the biggest one. I've definitely learned that as the years pass, like different lessons come up for me and, grace and empathy continually come up, especially like in the past, like month where I'm like presented with these specifically difficult people in my life. And I'm like, there's, this isn't about me. This is about you. There's something else going on. And that has been one of the biggest lessons for me of like, we're all kind of dealing with something and.
Heather McG (38:24)
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (38:25)
A lot of us just shove it down and continue forward. Cause I did that.
Heather McG (38:31)
What do you wish for people who are unfamiliar with this process? Because you are right, so many people are going through this and you don't know. You know, if they're wearing a lot of long sleeves, you know, and so many people are going through it, we don't know because it is, it's very hard to talk about for a lot of people and to say, and I think sometimes it's even not that you don't want to talk about it, but I think it's hard to say the words out loud. You know, for those words to come out of your mouth is actually physically difficult. What do you wish people who
Carrie Hauskens (38:38)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
for sure.
Heather McG (39:00)
more people understood about infertility.
Carrie Hauskens (39:02)
that it's often suffered in silence. I think that since a lot of people don't talk about it and that IVF does not mean baby, because there was so many like, congratulations, you're doing IVF. And I thought that too. I was like, I know, this is so exciting. And then it was like, wow, I didn't get that. And then people being like, well, did you do IVF? And it was like, yeah, and amongst many other things. sometimes the ideas we have wrapped around it, especially if we're not in it,
Heather McG (39:24)
Yeah.
Carrie Hauskens (39:30)
is we just don't understand. And the unsolicited advice that comes with that is often like unnecessary. And at least when that came at me, I started to feel broken because I tried all the tips and tricks and they weren't working. So I was like, well, something must be wrong with me. And now I'm learning to even when I, you know, someone comes to me with like, that isn't IVF or isn't infertility. And I'm like, I just kind of want to say that sucks and I'm sorry, cause I'm not here to fix you.
Heather McG (39:54)
Yeah.
Yeah, well, and I, you know, I didn't have the words for it at the time, but I, a lot of times I think I would not. It's harder to share what you have going on if you're worried the other person is going to swoop in to ask a checklist of, you do this? Did you do that? What about that? It's like, I have doctors. Guess what? They're better at it than you. Your job is to support me.
Carrie Hauskens (40:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Yep, yep, I'm paying a lot. Yes, yes. My husband used to say, yes,
as a friend or a family member, my husband used to say, ⁓ often these people like have thought about this for maybe three minutes when we've been thinking about it for three years or something. And it's like, we've thought about it.
Heather McG (40:33)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean that is one thing I wish I remember I wish people would have understood because it because sometimes especially when you're in the trenches it is so hard to say those words at all and then like you're just not going to say it if you're worried that they're going to ⁓ interrogate you about all the things that you should have done and I've tried to now when I am when I have a friend going through something where I know I don't know anything about it I do think it's a good practice to ask you know
Carrie Hauskens (40:47)
Mm-hmm.
Heather McG (41:02)
What can I do? Can I support you? Or do you want a problem solved? What would be the best thing for me to do to help you? And just ask. And I feel like a lot of people would appreciate that. And then you're not going to do more harm to someone who's really going through it.
Carrie Hauskens (41:04)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yes.
And then it gives you a pathway of what can you do, which I love.
Heather McG (41:18)
Yeah, this is a big question, but I like to ask it, because sometimes I get funny answers, and sometimes I get really deep answers. In life, what do you know for sure?
Carrie Hauskens (41:29)
I think about when I was a teacher, this was a big motto of mine. Mistakes are proof that you're trying. Like I was so afraid of failure for so long. But then when I started teaching children and they, saw them being afraid of failure and I was like, well, we got to just try it. And I was like, well, I should probably practice what I preach. And even if you're failing, means you're trying something. And that's a lot in itself. And that helps me remember that the whole trial and error part.
is natural, even though I often live more in the error part of life, but that is how I have learned and become who I am.
Heather McG (42:06)
I love it. And I actually did just think of one more question and this is actually different. It's similar, but it is a different question from the one I asked earlier, which earlier I asked you, what would you want to say to someone who's going through infertility or fertility treatments right now? I actually would love to know for people who may be the right to stop, like what would you, and they're trying to figure out, should I just move on with my life? What would you want to say to them?
Carrie Hauskens (42:09)
Yes.
It's a very personal decision that, a lot of people ask me, when will they know? And I say, like, I can't tell you when to know. Cause I didn't know when I was going to know, but when I knew, I really knew. And I feel like if you do have a slight feeling that you want to keep going, then maybe you should keep trying because it's going to take a lot of soul searching in yourself to know the answer to that and digging deep.
brings up a lot of other things, at least for me, of like childhood issues and dreams that I had. But a therapist will probably help you explore that and ⁓ know that only really you can know the answer. And at that point, it is only about you and your partner.
Heather McG (43:13)
Hmm
Carrie Hauskens (43:21)
or if you're doing it alone, because I felt like I was letting people down when I stopped. And I remember telling that to my family and they all were shocked. They were like, oh my God, we just want you to be happy. And I was like, but I'm not making you a grandparent. Like that feels wild. And they're like, we just want you happy. And so knowing that you're not letting people down is really important too. Cause I had this story that I was telling myself that really wasn't true.
Heather McG (43:46)
Well, it's funny the pressure that we put on ourselves, you know, when like, you know, then looking back, it's like, wow, why did I, why did I keep doing it? And it's self induced, you know, because if someone loves you, they don't want you to be going through this kind of pain. And yeah, we do it to ourselves quite often, which is wild. And you don't see it until later.
Carrie Hauskens (43:48)
Yes.
Yes!
Yes. Yes.
Nope.
I remember like seeing the look on my parents' faces of them being like, do I make you feel that way? And I was like, no, like there's been a few moments, but like overall, no. And they're like, okay, then what's happening here? You never know. Yes. Yes.
Heather McG (44:22)
time.
Thank you so much for being here and for sharing your story today. Where can people find you if they want to work with you, read some of your work, hear more? Where can they find you?
Carrie Hauskens (44:35)
Blooming with care is my handle across Instagram, TikTok, then bloomingwithcare.com is my website where I have my writing. mainly on Instagram and TikTok, but you can reach me at all of those places.
Heather McG (44:48)
Amazing. And I'm going to link, I'll put all those links in the show notes. So it's easy for people. If you're listening, you can just go there and click through. I want to thank you so much for being here and talking to us about your story. And thank you to everyone out there who is listening today, especially if you're on your own journey. We hope you have a great week.
Carrie Hauskens (45:03)
⁓
Thank you so much for having me.