Take Charge of Your Love Life with Drea Renee
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Description
Drea Renee is here to share what she's learned about love, and why we all need to get more comfortable when relationships don't work out. She's talking about taking control of her love life, creating a full, happy life, and the life decision that changed everything for her. This is a conversation about leveling up by letting go, and it all starts with you.
About Drea Renee
Drea Renee is a media personality, host, and longtime poker insider who has spent over a decade on some of the biggest stages in the game, from the World Poker Tour to PokerGO and the WSOP. Beyond the poker felt, she is the co-host of the hit podcast Hey Babe, Can We Talk?, a show that dives into modern dating, relationships, and self-growth with humor, honesty, and heart. Known for blending wit with real talk, Drea has created a space where guests and listeners alike can laugh, reflect, and get closer to themselves and their partners. Whether she’s interviewing world-class poker players or unpacking the chaos of love and connection, Drea’s signature energy makes every conversation both entertaining and meaningful.
• Follow Drea at @heybabecanwetalk
About Heather McG
Heather is an Emmy and Cannes Lion Grand Prix-winning producer, author, and founder of McG Media. She is the creator of the happily never after, a 360-degree project that explores how life’s endings can lead to a new beginning. A twin mom, endurance athlete, and devoted Trekkie, sitting still has never been her forté.
Transcript
Heather McG (00:20)
Hi everyone. Welcome to the Happily Never After, a podcast where we explore how life's endings can lead to a new beginning. If you enjoy the show, please don't forget to rate, review and follow us wherever you are listening or watching the show today. My guest today is Dre Renee.
a media personality, host, longtime poker insider, which I just learned about you and I think it's fascinating. And she has spent over a decade in some of the biggest stages in the game from the World Poker Tour to Poker Go, the World Series of Poker. She is also the co-host of the hit podcast, Hey Babe, Can We Talk? A show that dives into modern dating, relationships and self growth with humor, honesty and heart. I love the real conversations that you're having over there, I think they're really great. And I'm so glad you're here today.
Drea Renee (01:03)
Thank you.
Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me on.
Heather McG (01:08)
Now, Drea this is a show about how life's endings can lead to a new beginning. What have been some of the biggest endings in your life?
Drea Renee (01:15)
I think the biggest ending would probably be my relationship with drinking. That was an ending that happened in my life about 16 years ago. And then that just changed the trajectory of my entire life. And I think at that time, it took me a few years to just kind of realize like, it wasn't working. It didn't happen overnight. Kind of like with a breakup or, know, ending of a friendship, these things sort of.
Heather McG (01:20)
Okay.
Drea Renee (01:40)
get seeds get planted and you're like, wow, this isn't working. This isn't working. And I feel like the universe God or whatever you choose to believe in gives you these little like soft taps of like, hey, I think we need to try something else. So that would probably be the first big ending of my life where things took a big left turn. And in a really beautiful way where I was able to then show up to myself, show up to my family, show up to my friends.
and be the woman that I really wanted to be because I feel like I was covering up who I really was. I was covering up my feelings and I just wasn't showing up as a woman of integrity at that time.
Heather McG (02:17)
and you said that you could see it wasn't working, it wasn't working, like what about it was not working for you?
Drea Renee (02:22)
So for me, I would go out for an evening and sort of make plans of what I thought the evening would go like. And then once I added this part into my life, my evening just took a left and I could not keep my word at that time. And I was like, this does not feel good. Like I was missing appointments, missing engagements with friends, missing events. I was acting at the time, missing auditions. And I was like, this just isn't working, you know?
And I journal, I've journaled since I was 13 and I knew it. You know, it's like, we know. And if we are truly quiet with ourselves, the answer is there. We may not want to confront the answer. We may not want to deal with it. And it is really hard to confront yourself and to think, wow, this does not work for me. And going into that zone of discomfort was not something I really wanted to do, right? Cause now my friend groups are going to be different.
because my whole lifestyle is gonna be different. And I was really scared to do it, but I knew it just wasn't working, you know? And I didn't like who I was. I didn't like how I felt. I didn't like waking up in the morning and having to kind of piece the evening together to figure out like, what did I do? What did I say? Checking text messages. And so it started out as a cleanse, right? I was gonna do like 30 days, give myself a break.
get sort of back in the groove of work and all these things. And then it was six months. And then I said, you know what? Let me just go for a year. And then I thought my life is changing for the better. Like I really don't need it anymore. And it was so interesting because, you know, as I have my podcast on dating, it really affected my dating life, like dramatically.
Heather McG (04:06)
I was about to ask about that. Yeah,
what happened there? How did that change things? Because I have to imagine dating was a lot different after making that change in your life.
Drea Renee (04:13)
Girl, well now when I go on
dates, you know, I have to really like the person. There's no liquid courage and there's no alcohol just covering up or maybe hiding the red flags. Not that it changed that part dramatically, but you know, I was able to really see like, this isn't working. And then even in terms of intimacy, that changed too, you know, and I had to take a really hard look at that as well.
⁓ Ultimately, it's been such a great filter with dating because if you need me to be there with you and drinking and honestly, I get it if some people are like, hey, I want to enjoy a glass of wine or whatever with my partner. I totally get it. But I think it is an interesting moment when I say I don't drink and what that means for the other person and how they react tells me a lot. Tells me a lot about them.
Heather McG (05:03)
okay, so in dating, how do you feel, like, what range of drinking are you comfortable with in the people you date? Do you seek out people who are also sober, or is it okay if they drink? Like, how do you also approach that aspect of dating?
Drea Renee (05:18)
So ideally I would prefer someone that wasn't drinking on a regular basis, right? I did date a guy for many years who was a heavy drinker and it was really difficult. It was really difficult. And in the beginning he had told me, cause he had been previously sober and that he thought it was, you know, a sign from God. He met me, he was going to get sober. But at end of the day, if somebody wants to change that path in their lives, they got to do it for themselves, not for your family, not for your kids, not for your job.
You know, it has to be for you. So we struggled a lot with this particular thing. And just like how I was in my life, he wasn't able to show up for me in the best way because everything was covered with alcohol and all the other things he was doing. it was difficult. And then I dated a guy for five years who didn't drink at all. He wasn't like in the program or anything like that. He just didn't have a relationship with alcohol. And it was great because in the beginning, I will say when I did make this life change, it was hard to kind of feel
comfortable, right? I always felt like I had to figure out a way to hold something that looked like a cocktail. So I would always get like a club soda with the lime. That way, you know, maybe people around, like I cared so much about what they thought and like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, we're drinking together or whatever. ⁓ But as, as the journey continued, you know, I don't really care anymore. And if you need that, I'm just, I'm not your person, you know? And, and also,
Heather McG (06:32)
Yeah.
Drea Renee (06:43)
When people get to know me, they're like, yeah, you don't need to drink. Like, it's totally fine, Drea Like, you do not need to. Like, I have so much energy. And, you know, I went to Burning Man recently and I go completely sober and people think I'm on something. You know, I'm just really present and enjoying the moments. And I remember when I was drinking and doing all that in my twenties, I would think about my wedding day and I would think, man, I can't wait to do karaoke and be drunk with my husband.
Right? And that's such a beautiful moment. That's such a life defining moment. And later on, I thought, why would I want to miss that? Why would I not want to be present and show up for that? And I want a partner who also wants to show up for that. So to answer your question, I don't mind if someone has a healthy relationship with alcohol. Like it doesn't turn me off or anything like that. But as somebody who, you know, did not have a great relationship with it back in the day, I know what it looks like. And when I see it,
I'm like, okay, this is not gonna be the person for me, because they still have a lot of work to do on themselves, and they're not gonna be able to show up for me anyway.
Heather McG (07:46)
Well, and today, so the main thing we're gonna talk about today is dating relationships, but you're bringing up such an interesting topic, because this does all fly into how can you have a good, healthy, fulfilling relationship, you know, getting yourself together. from the way you're talking about it, what I'm hearing is that it was like holding you back, and that you were more yourself today than you were back then.
Drea Renee (08:05)
Absolutely, I am more myself. And I think about it before when I was like 16, 17, right? I don't think anyone's ever called me an introvert. Like I'm pretty outgoing. If there's something going on, there's a party, you know I'm in the room. But I remember this moment when I was really young and I was at a club and it was like the first time I went out and I was kind of shy and nervous. I didn't want to get on the dance floor. And there was something really beautiful about that moment because it just showed, you know,
You know, I was nervous and I did care what people thought at that time and just kind of like figuring myself out, right? It was like this pure, clear journey that I was on. And then, you know, you're with your friends, everybody's like maybe drinking or doing other things and you want to be a part of that. And I think I really covered up these really beautiful parts of myself. And so now when I'm fostering and building relationships, whether it be with work, friends or whatever, they know
that it's full on real, present, raw. And I mean what I say because there's nothing that's covering it up. And so that's one of the really beautiful things. And I still struggle, obviously, like there's no perfect path at all. There's definitely still things that I struggle with, especially people pleasing. But I am authentic, I am myself. And also when I am with someone, I'm like, you're getting all of me, the real me. And I have done so much work on myself.
through this journey of putting this down that they know I'm gonna be able to show up with integrity and really be a good, healthy partner. I mean, to the best of my ability. I still struggle with some things, but yeah. No, yeah, or I still, yeah, I've got some stuff to work on for sure.
Heather McG (09:39)
Yeah, nobody's perfect. You can be close to perfect, but not all the way.
have you had any relationships or even breakups in your life that were defining for you that you still hang on to? Or not hang on to, but like they really meant something to you.
Drea Renee (09:51)
Yes.
You know what's interesting about that question is I love that where I'm at in my life right now, I don't really have any residual thoughts about my exes. And I'm so grateful for that. I'm so grateful for that. But I will say the breakup that was really defining was the partner that had the unhealthy relationship with alcohol.
We were together for four years and I was such a, I forgive myself now, you know? And I think sometimes when we go through these breakups, we can be shameful. How could you let yourself do that? Why did I do that? What was I thinking? And I think it's really important to give yourself some grace for that person that you were. And one of the beautiful things about getting older is that you realize there's different iterations of yourself, right? There's different versions of yourself. There's different growing versions of yourself.
And at that time, I did not have the self-esteem that I really needed to have to show up in a relationship. I needed the validation. I needed just someone to say, yes, you, right? And I really fought for it. And the beginning of that relationship really did set the tone for the whole relationship. And it was just essentially me chasing him for the majority of the relationship. Love me, love me, love me, please love me. And, you know, to anyone listening right now that's going through that, it's like, it doesn't have to be
hard like that. It really doesn't have to be that difficult. You know, not for something where you're healthy. And when you do start to have that realization, like this needs to end, it's scary. And so I'm doing this for, you know, three, four years. And I didn't want to get back out into the dating game. I really didn't. I was like, I don't want to do this. But this guy was so, you know, and it's interesting. We had a conversation recently and he admitted, you know, how terrible he was to me. I mean, he really was. And I allowed it.
And then once I actually found my strength in that relationship, which was so interesting, like I found my value. I found my integrity and it was towards the end. And I remember I woke up one day and I was thinking, this does not match how I feel about myself anymore. Cause for the longest time he was a reflection of how I truly felt about myself. I didn't deserve it. I wasn't pretty enough. I wasn't talented enough. All these things were reflected in who I was seeing. And so.
I remember the moment where I woke up and it no longer made sense. And it was such a beautiful moment, but also such a painful moment because now I have to take the action to make the change. And that's really scary.
Heather McG (12:28)
Well, it's like, gosh, I'm actually having a moment here because you're making me think too about some of the big breakups I've had and looking back on them. I didn't even like them, but I was hanging on to them so hard or I didn't feel good in that relationship. Like, why do we do that? It's not like, it's not like they loved me. I love them and it just didn't work out. We moved on. It's like looking back on it, it was either so unhealthy or so bad for me.
Drea Renee (12:43)
Yes!
No. Nope.
Heather McG (12:56)
or even at the most basic level, think about it and I'm like, they didn't like me and I didn't like them, but I dated them for years. Why did I do that?
Drea Renee (13:01)
For years,
Heather, for years, and I remember waking up and I really pay attention to how my body physically responds to things, even friends, even around family, anything, right? And I would wake up with this like elephant on my chest every day and just power through it. You know what I mean?
pushed through it and then it became the norm. It became the norm. And so it was like, wake up, struggle, struggle, struggle, get through it and just try to like fight through the day. And you're right. I don't know if we, if we liked each other, you know, I knew that he liked what I provided for him, but was he in love with me? I don't think so because our actions and relationship wasn't reflective of that. And it was really difficult to like have a good day. I think we had a couple of pockets.
in four years that were really great, but most of it was pretty tumultuous. And I remember one of his really good friends was like, Tori, what are you doing? Like, I love my friend, but you're amazing. Like, this should not be happening, right? And that was a really defining moment for me.
Heather McG (14:05)
Yeah.
Well, it kind of shows too, people get together for all kinds of reasons. And I would say only sometimes is it about love. You know, like two people get drawn together for a whole myriad of different reasons either, you know, like they like what that person brings to their life or they're like a trophy. Like it makes them feel better about themselves or they like trigger something really deep in you or you just hang on real tight cause you're trying to fix it. And it becomes really toxic.
Drea Renee (14:10)
Yeah.
Exactly.
Heather McG (14:29)
Now, after going through that breakup, and it sounds like when you left, it feels like that was like actually when you got healthy to say, is not right for me and to move on, perhaps.
Drea Renee (14:38)
Well, ⁓ I then, well, I, later girl, so I did quickly sort of jump into something else and I was really excited because I thought this guy is different, he's showing up differently and then later on I realized some of those old habits from my ex were then showing up in this guy and even some ways, not even like worse, you know.
Heather McG (14:43)
You're like, later.
Drea Renee (15:05)
And so I still had some work to do. I think with this next person, the first two, three weeks were magical and I really got lost in that. It was just nice to feel affection, to feel safe. I did like this person at that time. And so I didn't give myself enough time in between. So then after this breakup with this next person, that was also a defining moment. I then took the space to work on Andrea.
And that was when a lot of things changed. I got off the dating apps. I really just figured out, Dre, what is it that you even like? You know, my therapist said to me one day, she was like, do you even like him? And it just wasn't even something I thought about. It just wasn't even, I was like, I don't know. Why are you asking me this? You know what I mean?
Heather McG (15:50)
We never ask
ourselves that very basic question. Do you even like this man or this person or whoever you're with or dating or talking to? Do you even like them? Because we get so tied up and like, do they like me? And then you decide if you like them. sometimes at that point, you don't even care anymore if whether you like them or not.
Drea Renee (15:55)
Yeah.
Do you like them?
Exactly. No, if they like
me, that's the end of the sentence. And you know, this is something that we should ask even about our friends, even about the people that we work with, that we're spending time with, you know, because time is like all we have, and it's so valuable. And it should be, you know, an asset to and bring somebody into our lives. It shouldn't just be it's open for everybody. It should be like an exclusive club. Let me check the list. Let me see if you're on here and I'll get back to you.
But I think sometimes, especially for people like me, I'm really nice. I'm really open. I care a lot about people. And I don't say this in this like martyr way, but I genuinely do. But that gets me in trouble sometimes because I don't always have the discernment. And then even when, like I said in the beginning, you know, I think if we get really quiet with ourselves for just a moment, your body really does keep the score. That's a great book. And you, you know, especially romantically when it's like,
Heather McG (16:34)
Yes.
Yeah.
Drea Renee (17:01)
this does not feel good. Because when you do find someone that kind of checks those boxes, you're like, my God, what was I doing before? Right?
Heather McG (17:09)
Yeah, it kind of knocks you over. I do think whenever someone's coming off of a heartbreak, like a big breakup or a divorce, something like that, I always think about, well, I think there is a place for dumpster fire dating. really, you know, I'm not that person that's like, you need to be alone for three years and then go on a date. I don't believe in that. But just like be aware of what's happening.
Drea Renee (17:23)
yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure, yeah.
Heather McG (17:30)
you're gonna act differently going out to dinner if you're starving. You know, you're gonna be more in control of yourself, make the choices you actually wanna make if you're not starving. And so whenever we go into the dating pool and we are starved for affection, starved for self-esteem, we're gonna act differently than if we are maybe a little healthier, just a little healthier.
Drea Renee (17:48)
That's a really good point.
That's a really good point. I just had a girlfriend recently. She has not been on any dates or anything since her breakup, nothing real. And then she recently went out with this guy who is so wrong for her. And she had this starvation energy of like, my God, I got to make this work. The guy was already showing signs that it wasn't a good idea. And it took her like a couple of days to get there. But it was like something she was going to maybe jump into if he wanted to, because she had that.
Energy and you're right. I do think there's a place to kind of just go on some dates See what happens and and kind of like fill your satchel a little bit before going on a date and then having nothing in there, right?
Heather McG (18:30)
Well, and this sounds so counterintuitive, but I think there is a place for care less.
Drea Renee (18:34)
Yeah, I do. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. Yeah.
Heather McG (18:39)
Like
be less attached to whether you're gonna get a boyfriend or a husband or whatever out of this. Like don't even think about that. Don't get attached to that. Okay, so you took this time to work on yourself, get healthier. What were some of the things that you discovered about yourself or things that you decided to do differently about your love life?
Drea Renee (18:47)
Yeah.
⁓ one of the things I decided to do differently was to slow down, right? I still struggle with this exact thing a little bit because I think I took a lot of time off. And so then that what we're just talking about happened a little bit where the first person I had a connection with, I kind of ran with it. And then I was like, wait a second. And I really focused on listening to what men were saying. That was something that was different. When I look back at my old partners, so many like,
blaring red flags within the first couple days because I think people always say men will tell you who they are people will tell you who they are just period on both sides you can listen how they are showing up about their exes how they're talking about their friends it tells you a lot about their character so I started really paying attention to values what do you what lights you up you know what I mean where do you spend your free time also something that changed for me is like do you have anywhere that you
Heather McG (19:29)
Yeah.
Drea Renee (19:49)
give all your information to like, who are you checking in with? Right? Is it spiritual? Are you religious? I don't know. Do you go to therapy? Like what is your program of how you navigate your life? I personally don't feel self-reliance is the way I think we need some outside source, whatever that is for you to kind of help guide and navigate your life. So dating someone who was doing the work.
was also really important to me. And not in this like, cause I feel like there's a lot of people who are like spiritual, like frauds these days, who just know the language and, but they aren't really doing anything. So looking at someone's actions and not getting caught up in their words. I mean, I'm actually actively working on that now because people can say so much. They can say so, especially in the first few weeks, but really taking a pause, like what are their actions?
Heather McG (20:21)
Yeah. Yep.
Right.
Drea Renee (20:41)
What do they stand for? And is this someone I want to really invest in? That was the biggest change for me. Because before it was like, he likes me, he's cute. That's about it. And I didn't go any further than that.
Heather McG (20:54)
Well, sometimes you want to get on the roller coaster. know, every once in a while, I know for me every maybe a few months, maybe several times a year, I would meet someone that was like, my God, I'm in love. Not really. But you know that thing where you get crazy for that person and they're texting you all the time and you go on a date on a Friday and then you go out again on Saturday, then you go out again on Sunday and it's so intense. It's so hard to...
Drea Renee (21:06)
Yeah,
So fun. So fun. Yeah.
Heather McG (21:19)
make like to say, you know what, we need to slow down because you get so excited. You get so excited about it. And a lot of time, like I know for me every single time it ended up flame out because that's really not about getting to know each other. That's more about like, I'm riding this high, which has nothing to do with actually getting to know each other.
Drea Renee (21:23)
It's so hard. Yeah.
No, it really doesn't, but it's, I always would get afraid to say anything to slow it down for fear, then they're gonna leave and then it's gonna go away. And honestly, Heather, sometimes that little portion is just fun. Even if I know it's gonna, we're gonna like run into the wall, it's gonna crash and burn. And sometimes I just strap in and I'm like, you know what? I'm just, I'm ready, let's do it, you know? Yeah, exactly, totally. I'm like, let's just see what happens.
Heather McG (21:43)
Yeah. Right.
You're due for a fling every now and then.
Now I'm interested, you you are someone who, you know, anyone that has like, who is invested in learning about dating and relationships, which you are. So you've talked to many, many, many people about this. So I'm getting interested in your perspective. Daters and growing numbers, like it has been the younger generations, but it's now starting to come all the way up in terms of age and generations. A lot of daters, women especially, are declining to date at all. They're declining to get into relationships.
tons do not want to get married or if they've been married they're not getting married again, drinking is down, sex is down. What do you think is behind that phenomenon?
Drea Renee (22:38)
Honestly, I feel people are tired. That's what's behind that phenomenon. think there's a lot more emphasis nowadays on independence, self-love, self-care, live your best life. You need to be happy. Think about yourself, right? So this energy has seeped into our culture, you know, in the last 20 years, right? It used to be more family-focused. You need to struggle, stay no matter what, trudge through.
Don't give up, don't get divorced, don't do these things. But now this energy is around, you you gotta do what's best for you. You, you, you, you, you. And I think there's definitely benefits to that. But I think at the end of it all, I was just talking about this yesterday with a friend, I don't know if we need to wear that every single day, right? I do think it's important to find somebody that you can partner with. For me, I've never been married, so I'm speaking from a single place, right?
And I do understand because I do have friends that have been married that emphatically say, if this does not work out, I will not do this again. I will not get married again, right? And I've also seen people say it and then it changes. One of the things I don't do is I don't ever say never anymore. I, for me, when people are like, I will never do this, I will never do that. I'm like, you don't know. If you're lucky, it's a long life and you could meet somebody.
Heather McG (23:43)
Yeah.
Drea Renee (23:59)
that will break your never. That is one of my like, I will go to the grave with that. You can always meet someone that will break your never. So when people give you all these excuses like work is busy, this isn't a good time for me, all this and that. I don't, I don't want to hear any of that. Like I'm just like, whatever. Okay. You don't, you want to be with me. That's fine. But I really think that we've now shifted into this space where togetherness is not as important and the amount of options that we have and the amount of access that we have has created this energy of like,
I can be at my house by myself, but then I can also pick up my phone and have a girl or a woman or a guy just come over to my house, have a moment with them, and then I can move on and do all the things for my day. But I think what we're forgetting is that as we get older, right? Like, I don't know what they are feeling about this older generation, like 60, 70 years old, right? Especially a lot. Right. Like, what are they doing? Is it important to have a partner? But now friendships are becoming more important.
Heather McG (24:49)
Yeah, because they're dating, actually.
Drea Renee (24:58)
Right? There are people are cultivating all of these feelings that you would be giving to a partner and friendships, maybe in grandchildren and things like that. For me personally, I do want to grow old with someone and that is what I do hope to happen. But again, I say this with the caveat is I've never been married. So like, I don't know, maybe, you know, in 20 years I might be like, Heather, I ain't never doing that again. You know, I don't know.
Heather McG (25:21)
You want to grow old with the right person. Because I would say the only thing that's way worse than that is growing old with the wrong person who it makes your life a lot worse. You mentioned something that I think is really interesting. And I know I've been thinking about this lately. So a few things here. You were talking about how you were looking for, as you're getting to know someone that you're dating, you want to know what's their program. And you date men. So I'm specifically talking about men here.
Drea Renee (25:22)
Exactly.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Heather McG (25:45)
that you really want to know what their program is. And something that I would then diagram with that, you know, there's a lot of talk about the male loneliness problem and they have trouble getting matches and all of that. And I know for me, like you, as I went along and dating, what I was looking for got more and more selective. And I got to the point where if you don't have your own friends and you don't have your own interests and hobbies, I'm not interested. Like kind of like your version of the program, mine was like, what's your life look like? Because so many men don't have things like that.
Drea Renee (25:53)
Mm-hmm.
Mmmmm.
Right?
Heather McG (26:14)
And it's like, well, you're less attractive if there's nothing you're interested in. You don't have friends. Whereas women, we have a million friends that we are very close and active with. We all have things we like to do. What are you doing? That's kind of what I think about.
Drea Renee (26:20)
million.
Exactly. Yeah.
I think there's sometimes men, that's a really vulnerable thing. And I don't know if all these men want to tap into that side of themselves to get close to people. And as I said before, you know, we do have this
Heather McG (26:33)
Yeah.
Drea Renee (26:42)
over independence now. It's like hyper independent, excuse me. And that does trickle down to even friendships, especially with men at times of like, who's your core group? And it does say a lot if a person doesn't have any friends, because also, then you're going to be putting a lot of energy into me, which I don't mind. But now that I'm older, I do see the value of having your own life. I used to not see it. I would want to meet someone and we're here. You know what I mean? Like all the time, every day.
Heather McG (27:10)
Yeah.
Drea Renee (27:11)
And it took me a little while to grow into like, no, let's miss each other a little bit. Let's put some space into things. That's something I would never say. And even hearing myself say it now, I'm like, oh my God, I've changed so much, you But I do think it's important for people to have some scaffolding around their life and also their own life with their friends, their family, their job, and things that they are interested in. Like introduce me to some new stuff, right? Like that's always nice too.
Heather McG (27:38)
Yeah.
Now with all the conversations you have with people who are out there dating and talking about relationships, what are some of the things that you think people can do better in dating and relationships overall? Like what are the things that you see that people make this mistake over and over again and you wish more people knew about it?
Drea Renee (27:56)
I wish people would take relationships and other humans more seriously. I think people are treating other humans as disposable because we're just sitting there swiping, swiping, swiping. And I think we're losing the magic of intimacy and we're losing the magic of really getting to know someone. And as I say on my show, a relationship to me does not start until you have your first disagreement. It just really does not start. That first three month trial period, like,
I don't, you know, it's fun and it's great, but you know, I had one guy that I was about to start dating say that to me. He's like, I want to know how you show up in a disagreement, Drea. And I think that is so important. And I think a lot of us are, like I said, people are tired. And so it's like, if somebody does like one thing and I've been guilty of this too, we're like, okay, I'm out. I'm not, I'm not going to do this. So I wish people would slow down and remember the value of,
Heather McG (28:26)
Yeah.
Yes.
Drea Renee (28:52)
being with someone and wanting to be with a partner. Now, if you don't wanna be and you wanna be out there dating, a lot of people are like just getting out of things. That's another thing too on dating apps. Like, how long have you been single? And if somebody goes, about a year, it's always not true. I never believe it. About a year is probably like five months, a few weeks, like you never really know, you know? So that's something I wish that people would start doing differently. I wish people would take a minute in intimacy.
Heather McG (29:05)
Ha!
Drea Renee (29:16)
I do, think the value around sex these days, it's like a handshake. Nobody cares. That's a personal preference, obviously, like everybody do whatever you want to do. But I think it's just, it just cheapens things a little bit. Like I'm not even saying you got to wait six months or whatever, but just give it a little bit of a pause and the energy around like, did you sleep with them? I'm like, we went to brunch. Like why did I want to see his penis and pancakes? Like what are we talking about here? No.
Heather McG (29:33)
Yeah.
No, there were
only pancakes. That was it. No euphemisms. Actual pancakes.
Drea Renee (29:44)
There were only pancakes girl. No, like why are we
doing this? You know, ⁓ we went on a third date. Well, obviously he's coming over and I'm like, three meals and then my vagina is on a platter. Like I don't understand what we're doing here. Now, like if this is what you feel your two adults, you know, live your life, but you know, to answer your question, it's like, feel the combination of these things are just making us further and further and further away from each other. And, and I always wonder what the state
of relationships will look like in 20 years. Like, will people, you know, still care? I don't know.
and it, it truly makes me sad. It makes me so sad. Cause also I'm a lover girl. I'm a lover girl. And one thing I did want to add Heather is that there is this energy on both sides where everyone's going on dates like this with the attitude.
You know, people aren't as open, they're guarded. They don't want you to think that they like you, you know? And it's crazy.
Heather McG (30:32)
Yeah.
Yes.
you know, I've been with my partner now for almost four years and you were talking about how people go into dates now and they're kind of guarded, masked and something that brought, you know, my point here is not so much about my partner, but how, like with the ways that people stand out.
Drea Renee (30:46)
Yes.
Heather McG (30:55)
I remember he showed up to our first date and he stood out to me because he was talking to me like a normal person and I felt like I could be a normal person. We were asking each other normal questions. We were not putting on a show. It felt relaxed. And I think what you're on to, it almost makes me think about a larger issue of the anxiety people feel around dating because it is such a mess. And we bring that anxiety in.
Drea Renee (31:15)
Mmm.
Heather McG (31:18)
We put on the show with other people. We are anxious. We are guarded. We are always looking for the red flags. And it's like, can't say don't do that because there are a lot of people that are out of control out there. That's real. But it makes it really hard to connect to the good ones because you're just waiting for them to be terrible. How do you?
Drea Renee (31:35)
Yes, and that's what I'm
saying. Like people go on dates like, you know, they're just, it's not, and so then you wanna lead with your heart carefully, which is what I do anyway. You I do try to like be logical, be intellectual around it, but it's like as soon as my little heart pitter-patters and I like someone, it's like, you know, and then I, and I don't, I've always been this way since I was 12 years old. I am the friend.
Heather McG (31:39)
Yeah, how is that going to go anywhere? Good.
Out the door.
Drea Renee (32:04)
that says and does things on dates that my friends are like, Dre, you can't say that. Dre, you can't do that. And I will die with the motto of you cannot say the wrong thing to the right person. When you like somebody, the concessions we make for people because they're hot, because of their job or because of their networking system, whatever it is, if you want to make something work with someone, you really can't say the wrong thing to the right person. I've seen people be absolutely insane on dates and that person is still like, well, I'll see you on Thursday.
Heather McG (32:19)
Yeah.
Drea Renee (32:33)
Right? And I'm not saying go out there and be crazy, but I do not believe in wearing like a full mask and hiding who I am because I'm like, you're going to figure it out anyway. Like my friend lies about her age. I don't do any of that. You know what I mean? Cause that first trip you're to go on together. You're like, by the way, by the way, this is what my passport says. You know, I don't want to do any of that. Like, and I can't.
Heather McG (32:46)
Yeah.
Yeah, how are you gonna have
that conversation? like, if the whole point is to, if that's the goal, and it's not everybody's goal, but if your goal is to get into a real relationship, any sort of lying or not getting to know who each other's real self is, is just gonna go against that goal.
Drea Renee (33:00)
It's not.
Absolutely, absolutely. And I want nothing to do with that. And so the scary thing too is like figuring out who's authentic, right? Like you said, you and your partner had like a normal conversation and it's like, you do kind of got to be on alert a little bit. Like, is he lying? Is he telling the truth? And you don't want to like let that be the big umbrella, but it does unfortunately have to be a thought, especially if you're online dating.
Heather McG (33:26)
Right.
Drea Renee (33:35)
So unless you meet somebody through a friend or at work or at a networking event, but you still kind of gotta be a little bit on guard until you figure out who they really are.
Heather McG (33:36)
Yes.
Well, and it goes to what you were saying earlier, slow down. You know, cause like time reveals all. And so slow down a little bit and those things are going to start coming to light. But then your job is to pay attention. And when someone's telling you who they really are, you have to listen to that and stop trying to pretend that they're someone else or they want something else, you know, cause you're upset about it.
Drea Renee (33:48)
Slow down.
Exactly. I know
I would see men on online. They've like, I don't want children. Like it says I do not want children. But if he was cute, I'd be like, well, I could probably change his mind. Right. Like, I mean, I'm just gonna go out with him and see he's gonna love me and be like, my God, how can I have a baby with you? Right. That is not the case. That does not happen like that. No, it's not.
Heather McG (34:15)
He's gonna love me. Yeah.
Right. That's not how that works. What do you think?
Now, relative to online dating, what do you think about the, we dating the same guy groups? I'm sure you're aware of those as someone who is in the know.
Drea Renee (34:31)
I am ⁓ extremely
aware of those groups and I saw the value in them in the beginning of sort of like being like, hey, this guy, this person is, you know, out here sleeping around or doing all these things. I don't see the value in posting someone that hasn't done anything just to see like that does not make any sense to me. And this just only adds to the reasoning of why men are angry at women. And why are we doing things like this? Because if I were on
Heather McG (34:59)
Right.
Drea Renee (34:59)
Some sort of you know, ⁓ thread of like hey, here's dreah renee you guys she's a podcast host Does anyone have any dirt on her like I would be so offended right and I don't even want to date that person anyway So I don't I don't see the value and just putting someone out there just to then dig Versus like let me see what this experience is going to be like and then if something crazy happens, you know, whatever But I don't know if it's a if it's a good thing. I don't know if it's a good thing Yeah
Heather McG (35:28)
Well,
it kind of shows how women's, I 100 % agree with you, because I think in the beginning there was a lot more, the vibe was more, hey, this person assaulted me, or this person hurt me in a very real way. And now it feels like a lot of the posts are to your point, anyone got the dirt, or things like, they stopped talking to me, or they said they wanted a relationship and then they broke up with me, which.
Drea Renee (35:37)
Exactly!
Heather McG (35:49)
Newsflash, people get to do that. There's nothing wrong with that. People change their minds. Things don't work out. That is actually normal and doesn't mean there's something wrong with them. Things just don't work out. And guess what? Not everybody's gonna like you.
Drea Renee (35:51)
People get to do that.
Exactly.
Right. We want an amazing date. We had an amazing kiss. I never heard from him again. Does anyone it's like, no, that's not to me. That's not the purpose of those sites. Right. So it's like if you stole your money, you were assaulted, you know, things like that. These major things where it's like, guys, like, look out for this guy, you know, then I think these things make sense. But just to dig or to say the guy didn't text me back, it's like, girl, just go journal. Call your girlfriend.
Heather McG (36:18)
Right.
Drea Renee (36:26)
Like, I mean, what are we blasting these men for? And I think women need to take accountability for the consequences of doing things like this and what that means, you know, as the trickle down effect.
Heather McG (36:27)
Right.
Right.
Well yeah, sometimes I'm really confused because I feel like if you do one of those posts like, I'm going out with this person on Friday, he seems really great, but my gut says something is off, which I hate those, because it's like, your gut, there's actual research that says your gut is actually wrong quite often.
Drea Renee (36:51)
Like, just don't go out with the guy. You know what I mean?
Heather McG (36:54)
He's not
gonna know it's like this seems like a sure way like this is an example of women's anxiety being their own worst enemy
Drea Renee (37:00)
Yes, exactly. Exactly. I hear you. I'm like, yeah, just don't if that's what you feel strongly, don't go out with them then you don't need to put the guy on blast because you feel anxiety about it.
Heather McG (37:08)
Right.
Right, that is a you thing that you need to deal with. Now, you as we're getting wrapped up here, you know, from all of your conversations with people and also your own experience, what do you think has been like the biggest driver of feeling more empowered in your dating life and taking charge of getting what you want out of dating and relationships?
Drea Renee (37:15)
Exactly.
I think my biggest driver, unfortunately, in some ways has been my past of really trying to not make those same mistakes again, changing the pace, being open to the experience and also being open to it not working out, right? Not being so like tight, closed fist on these experiences, having to be my husband and just leaning into the experience of dating, right?
That that's been a big driving force for me because I think I used to go on these dates Just like are you my husband are you my husband use my husband, but now I'm just like, you know what? And you can feel it and you can feel it So I've dropped that now and just really like leaning into like let me look at this person clean slate I know nothing about them and just really enjoying Getting to know someone on you know, the beginning of an experience like that So that's really driven me and then also being okay on my own being okay not to the point where I don't want to
Heather McG (38:05)
I'm sure people love that.
Drea Renee (38:28)
partner with someone, but this relationship isn't going to be like, you know, I need it like the air that I breathe. Like that has also changed my entire energy around dating. Like I'm going to be okay. And I used to not feel that way. And I know a lot of people can relate to that. Like I got a partner, I got a partner, especially as you get older, but taking that out of it and being like, no, I'm going to be fine. The sun's going to rise again. Everything's going to be okay. Even if it's not okay for a bit.
learning from that experience and knowing like I can be alone. I don't need this guy to save my life.
Heather McG (39:02)
You know, I think you're offering some life changing dating advice actually, and relationship advice, being okay if it doesn't work out.
Drea Renee (39:08)
Yes,
that is a big thing, Heather. And I did not think about that until like the last three years. I'm like, it's okay if it doesn't work out, right? Like, everybody's gonna be okay, because other ones didn't work out.
Heather McG (39:19)
Yeah, I feel like you said that
to yourself in the mirror once in a while.
Drea Renee (39:23)
yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, like this date is just a date. And I say a date is not a down payment on a marriage. It's not, it's just a date alone. This man could be dating other women, he probably is, and that's okay. We're both trying to figure out what we wanna do here, and he doesn't owe me anything, and I don't owe him anything.
Heather McG (39:44)
Well, not being okay with things not working out is how you end up in bad marriages, in relationships for multiple years where you're chasing that man, trying to get him to love you, abusive situations. Like not being okay with things not working out is really like so counter, it sounds so counterintuitive. But to your point from what you said earlier, we hang on, we like try not to get divorced, we try not to have things end.
Drea Renee (39:54)
Right.
Heather McG (40:08)
And while there's value in being committed, there is a tipping point where you are holding on too hard and it's actually out of fear. And it's not because you actually like that person or love that person. It's because you don't want to be alone or you're afraid of it ending, which that's not a good reason to fight for your marriage or your relationship.
Drea Renee (40:14)
Exactly. ⁓
No.
And I woke up with fear for many years in a relationship with someone that I was going to die to try to make it work with. And this man was not in love with me. And I intuitively knew it the entire time. I knew it. I knew it. But I just wanted to make it work. I wanted to make it work.
Heather McG (40:38)
Isn't it how when we really like listen to ourselves and if we're honest with ourselves, those kinds of truths come to light. We know it. We know it deep down and we just try to like not pay attention to it.
Drea Renee (40:45)
yeah, we know it.
Exactly, exactly.
Heather McG (40:51)
Well, Dre, thank you so much for being here today, sharing your story and all of your, you you know so much about the subject space from your podcast. You do a lot of good work out there. Where can people find you if they want to work with you or they want to hear more from you and what you have to say?
Drea Renee (41:05)
Yeah, you can find me at hey babe, can we talk on instagram? I'm on tiktok youtube all the things I always answer dms And yeah, if you guys want to work with me, please reach out you can email me also at hey babe at hey babe Can we talk?
Heather McG (41:19)
All right, amazing. And I'll put all this in the show notes. nobody has to like scribble this down. You can just go to the show notes and click on it. Make it easy. Thank you so much for being here. And thank you to all of you who are listening to the Happily Never After today, especially those of you who are on your own journey. Be okay with it not working out. And we hope you have a great week.
Drea Renee (41:23)
Yeah.
Yes.