Recovery from Eating Disorders with Kyla Fox
SUBSCRIBE ON
Apple Podcasts │ Spotify │ YouTube │ Substack
Description
In this conversation, Kyla Fox shares her personal journey of overcoming an eating disorder and how it led her to establish The Centre, a virtual eating disorder recovery center in Toronto. She discusses the complexities of eating disorders, the importance of community in recovery, and her approach to parenting in a way that fosters a healthy relationship with food and body image. Kyla emphasizes the need for honesty and support for those struggling with eating disorders and offers hope for recovery.
About Kyla Fox
Kyla has established herself as a visionary and innovator, when it comes to re-framing the way Canadians think about and treat eating disorders. As someone who struggled herself with an eating disorder, Fox identified care gaps and fundamental flaws in the treatment and recovery approach. Kyla is a Master’s-level clinician with degrees from both the University of Toronto in the Master of Social Work program as well as an Honours Bachelor of Arts Degree in Women’s Studies. She is a member of the Ontario Association of Social Workers and is registered with the Ontario College of Social Workers and Social Service Workers. She is also a member of the Academy of Eating Disorders and the National Eating Disorders Association. With such deep and varied experience in the field, Kyla is regularly called on by Canada’s top media outlets as a special commentator on a broad list of topics, including eating disorders, self-esteem, women’s health, body image, pregnancy and body confidence and more.
Follow Kyla on Instagram at @kylafoxrecovery
Learn more at www.kylafoxcentre.com
Transcript
Heather Mcginley (00:41)
my guest today is Kyla Fox. Kyla and I actually crossed over many, many, multiple decades ago as college students at The Theatre School DePaul University. We were in different programs, but the college is really small. So we were around each other quite a bit actually. Now Kyla is here today because she's been on a journey over these last few years. She runs the Center by Kyla Fox in Toronto.
Kyla Fox (00:48)
Thanks.
Heather Mcginley (01:04)
She's worked through her own journey with an eating disorder and her experience led her to want to help other people who needed support. They struggled to find that help, so she wanted to fill that gap. The Centre is a comprehensive, fully virtual eating disorder recovery Centre. And Kyla is really a story in overcoming some really difficult things in your life and then doing your best to help others too. So Kyla, I'm so happy to have you here.
Kyla Fox (01:28)
Thank you so much. I really appreciate that beautiful introduction. And it's so incredible to see you after all this time.
Heather Mcginley (01:35)
I know it was so funny.
I sent a note to Kyla's team. was like, I don't know if she's gonna remember me, but whether she does or not, I would love to have her on to tell her story. Now Kyla, today you run The Centre You're a mom, you are happy and healthy, but it's been a really long road to get here. So can you take us back and talk a little bit about what was going on for you about 25 years ago?
Kyla Fox (01:42)
It's just amazing.
Yeah, I guess what I could start by saying is that the space of my life when I was about 19 years old, which is when you knew me, I think I just was really lost. I think I was feeling really directionless. I had always been in the performing arts. That was really kind of the way that I self-defined.
And I didn't want to pursue that anymore. didn't want, I actually really learned in going to DePaul and in working, know, as, or trying to work as an actress that I really am the kind of person that requires a lot of stability. And that didn't offer that to me, that life didn't offer that to me at all. I mean, lucky for me to sort of figure that out early enough on. However, it really kind of threw a wrench into.
Heather Mcginley (02:42)
Yeah.
Kyla Fox (02:48)
who I was, how I identified in the world, and then also created a ton of question marks around like, who would I be and what would I do? And so that really, honestly, was just the catalyst to bringing the eating disorder forward. That's not why I developed an eating disorder, but that is why it came at that time. Because I was at this precipice of like, what am I gonna do? Who am I? I have nothing. I am nobody.
I'm going to do this." That was sort of, I think, the cold notes of the thinking in my mind. And I remember quite actively saying to myself, I'm just going to start to exercise and just relieve some stress and maybe I'll sort of find some direction as I have the time to figure this out. And that just became like a catapulted into really, really severe restriction with food and excessive exercise, which led to really acute anorexia.
I mean, all to say is that I think sometimes when people think about eating disorders and they hear my story, they might think like, oh, you know, this young woman who like wanted to be an actress and, you know, and then she got caught up in that world and like thought she needed to be skinny and then she got an eating disorder and it sort of feels like pretty cliche. And I always feel it's important to say that that isn't the story.
The story is really about a young woman who really was like deeply sad and really lost in her life way before she was 19 and had an eating disorder. And that all of the stories that led her to that time.
were brought to a head in the form of manifesting her pain through food in her body. And I think it's really important to always say that, you know, eating disorders, I think sometimes get this rap of being about vanity and they're really about what's happening to a person on a much deeper level and the inability to...
Heather Mcginley (04:47)
Mm-hmm.
Kyla Fox (04:55)
manage, articulate, move through life and feelings. And so it starts to come out in food in the body in the form of self harm. And that's really what was happening to me at that time.
Heather Mcginley (05:07)
Now something you're saying is reminding me of a conversation I recently had with someone who has struggled with addiction has now been recovered for many years. And the way that he talked about addiction was that he said, I found it because I felt out of control of my life and it was something I could do that I could focus on. But then at a certain point, my addiction controlled me.
Kyla Fox (05:28)
I mean, I think that's very true. I think that probably like having an eating disorder has a very similar tone to that. I think a fundamental difference is that addiction to drugs and alcohol has a clear identifier around sobriety. And that's a really clear understanding that you don't use and then you keep living. And that's like...
not at all to underestimate how challenging that is. However, when you have an eating disorder, you don't get to do that because you need to eat to live. You can't just not use the thing you use and then get on with your life. You actually have to learn how to be with that thing. And not just like once a year, multiple times throughout each and every day, using the thing you hurt yourself with and the thing
that you hate or hates you or the thing that you're preoccupied with over and over and over and over again. And I think that's why recovering from an eating disorder is differently complex because you do need food to live forever and always. So you have to learn how to be in relationship with.
Heather Mcginley (06:34)
You know, I think a lot of people listening have, been through a personal experience with an eating disorder or disorder eating. Can you talk a little bit for people who maybe they love someone who's going through it or they're unfamiliar. I've read a few things that you've said in articles that I thought were really interesting. Were you really
push the interviewer to think about. It's actually a mindset. It's deeper than the food, which you alluded to at the beginning of our conversation. But can you share more about what it is like for the person that is going through it?
Kyla Fox (07:02)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's sort of like, how do I describe it? It's kind of like if you had noise in your mind constantly, noise, loud noise, telling you about, you know, what you need to do with food, what you can't do with food, what you have to do to earn food or not earn food.
you know, what's the way that you have to exercise or live or when can you eat or when can you not or why can you eat that or why can you not have that or where those people are going there to eat that you can't do that. It's like it's sort of like this incessant noise in your mind. Like on our website, when you click on the video at the start, there's like this, you know, there's words, right? And it's kind of like that. It's like it's like this pervasive and intrusive noise and it
Heather Mcginley (07:43)
Yeah.
Kyla Fox (07:51)
It is, gets, it's also about like, you're terrible at that and you're so ugly and they won't like you. And it's things that speak to who you are as a person, your self-concept. It's like the most deepest, ugliest inner critic that's just like badgering you. That's what it feels like.
And it's kind of like, you know, it starts off quite innocently because it's usually just sort of like, you know, like I was saying to you, you know, I'm just going to start to work out and maybe this is going to make me feel better. And then it's sort of like, well, you didn't work out today. You should do that. You should do that because, okay, so now I'm to do, well, you should work out more now or like you could do that more. And then suddenly it's like, why didn't you do that today? You better do that. Like, so it changes its tone after it grabs you. And then it becomes.
this like thing that you listen to because I feel like it initially gives you a lot of accolades and you feel pretty powerful with it and you're maybe getting some feedback that you know, you're disciplined or you're doing all these different kinds of things. And this is really just in the form of if someone's engaging in restriction, but ultimately it's like living in a prison in your mind, in your body, and that you are not the one
that is in control of what you can or cannot do. And at the same time, you also don't want to stop it either, because it's comforting and it's safe and it's what you know. It's like a real mind F, if you will, to be polite. It's like a real imprisonment in your mind. It's why it's a mental health issue.
Heather Mcginley (09:16)
Yeah.
Kyla Fox (09:23)
So I think that's the part that people can't quite grasp. Like just eat the thing or just stop eating the thing. It's like if it could only be that simple to just bust down that noise that you have to comply with.
Heather Mcginley (09:29)
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think that that does get me really frustrated on a variety of mental health issues or when someone has something going on in their life that is hurting them and people who don't get it will say things like, well, just stop doing it. It's that simple. But it's not, it's not that simple because it's coming from a very deep place that doesn't just flip a switch and it takes time and a lot of work.
Kyla Fox (09:44)
Mm-hmm.
now.
Yeah.
Yeah. And there's, think it's really important to remember that like, you know, when we're dealing with mental health and we're dealing with eating disorders, like there has been a purpose for that person to have this maladaptive coping mechanism. Like despite how dysfunctional it is, it has actually served them. Like I don't think I could have gotten through that time in my life if I wasn't in this level of harm. Granted, I wish in reflection, I would have had other tools to get me through.
and I never would wish anyone suffering the way that I did, I think like I probably wouldn't have survived my life if I didn't have this focus at that time, this awful focus, but it did protect me, is really what's confusing about mental health issues in some way and about eating disorders.
Heather Mcginley (10:40)
Well, and that's a really good point too. I remember I make this joke, a running joke about a bad day in therapy. And I had a bad day in therapy once because I was struggling. I was really being hard on myself about a habit that I was trying, or a behavior I was trying to change. was like, I'm just really struggling to make this difference. And my therapist said, well, what is it doing for you? It is giving you something. Even though it's bad for you, it is giving you something. And we need to figure out what that is. And that's what we need to look.
Kyla Fox (11:01)
going to win.
Mm-hmm. It's like a life jacket. It's like a life jacket. And you know, it's like you're out in this ocean and you're drowning and you get thrown this life jacket and you can float and you go, holy, like, I'm safe. But really, like, are we really safe in the middle of an ocean with a life jacket? Like, maybe in a moment. But if we actually got to the land, we'd be way safer. But we become accustomed to believing that that's actually what's safe.
Heather Mcginley (11:07)
It's interesting.
Yeah.
Kyla Fox (11:34)
And so we become maybe afraid to like swim or that, you know? And so I think sometimes that's what happens with eating disorders is we come to believe that the safety is actually keeping us safe only to eventually realize it keeps us more unsafe.
Heather Mcginley (11:49)
Yeah. Now
for you, this show is all about how life's endings can lead us to a breakthrough or to a new beginning. And I have to imagine that it was really hard for you to make the decision to start recovery. What happened to bring you to that?
Kyla Fox (12:02)
So many things. mean, I think that there were a lot of things that were happening to me physiologically. Like I really knew, I really truly knew that I was going to die if I didn't change. So that started to become very real and that was very scary for me. In Canada, our healthcare system is challenging in a lot of ways and getting the care that I needed medically wasn't really available to me.
without really lengthy wait lists. And I had very naive parents who I think were in denial for their own protection. So despite the fact that visibly they knew that I wasn't well and they could really appreciate the fact that I was suffering, I don't think they really could understand the extent to which I was suffering. So there wasn't really help available to me. I think what was sort of like, if you would, know, a lot of people talk about like the bottom, right? Like hitting the bottom. I feel like hitting the bottom for me was like,
really recognizing that I was going to die. And I had many lucid moments where I realized that what was happening to me wasn't just happening to me in isolation. Like the people around me were deeply suffering and this was impacting everyone and everything I knew. And that started to become a bit more apparent to me. And I sort of felt a responsibility, I suppose.
to make some changes, if not for me, then for them. And that became a bit of a motivator for me. And I also think the important thing to remember about eating disorder recovery and sort of that piece around probably any recovery for people is that it's not like you decide you're gonna recover and then you never have eating disorder symptoms again. And you just sort of have like this beautiful, you move into this beautiful abyss and it's awesome, right? It just doesn't work like that.
Heather Mcginley (13:40)
Yeah.
Kyla Fox (13:43)
And so recovery is just like this messy, awful like time and a lot of time where you're trying to pull away from the illness and you're getting sucked back into the illness. And so it's, you're vacillating between like wanting to be well and hating being well and wanting it back. And it was like years of that for me where I would like do things with food and then like go right back to not doing them anymore. Or I would
you know, move away from other harmful behaviors I was in and then like fall right back into them because I couldn't handle what was happening to my body or the changes or what it meant to have to get back into life, which I was really afraid of. You know, the eating disorder protected me from so many things that I didn't want to have to face. And I think that's really the truth. Like recovery, like overall, I imagine for anyone in it, eating disorder or otherwise is...
is the process of looking at yourself and facing yourself and your life and the things that you've been through, the things that you're going through and the things you're afraid of. And when you stay unwell and you stay in your harm, you don't have to look at that. You never do. And it takes a lot of courage and a lot of tries to face the things that have hurt us.
the things that are hurting us, the things that we're afraid are gonna hurt us. And I think that's why people sometimes find a lot of comfort in staying unwell because it's familiar and it's safe and you sort of get like a bubble around you in a way. And so I think recovery for me was like, finally just saying like, you you actually aren't gonna make it in your life if you keep this up and you need to face all these things that have hurt you, that have changed you, that have shaped you.
and you need to look at them and see them and talk about them and heal from them and use your voice around them and start to live differently.
Heather Mcginley (15:28)
Man, you're touching on something that I know for me, I have like a list of the big lessons of my life and that's one of them. Because I was, what you're making me think about is how we stay in harm because it prevents us from having to look at things and deal with things and confront things. I remember for me, I'd been through a string of abusive relationships. Bad day in therapy once again.
Kyla Fox (15:34)
Hmm.
Heather Mcginley (15:50)
And I was like, I just don't understand. just like, bad at picking partners. And my therapist pushed me and she said, well, is it so that you're always the good one and you don't actually have to look at your stuff? I was like, my God, yes. That's it. That's that.
Kyla Fox (16:02)
Yeah, yeah, it's like putting
me mirrors up. Like I feel like it's like, yeah, it's like shining lights on things that we're so afraid to see, you know, and, we all have these stories and experiences, you know, and we can never underestimate the way that things shape us. Like some people will say to me, know, kind of like, I haven't really been through anything so hard or
Like what's the thing that I need to see so I can heal and then get over the seating disorder? like, there's not necessarily a gold nugget, you know? It's just like, it's all the things, know, a combination of all the things in our lives that like shape us. And we're also differently, we're also different constitutionally. We're differently resilient. We're different in terms of our sensitivities. Like we're impacted differently. And so, you know, the world shapes who we are.
Heather Mcginley (16:36)
Yeah.
Kyla Fox (16:55)
and our experiences shape who we are. And that is really such a fundamentally important thing to understand about ourselves when we're thinking about healing.
Heather Mcginley (17:04)
Now you have a quote that I or something that you wrote in a different article that I thought was just really beautiful. Though I would never wish, ⁓ you're like, I hope I luck it too. Though I would never wish an eating disorder upon anyone without it, I don't believe I would live as richly in my heart as I do now. Can you share a little bit more about what you think about?
Kyla Fox (17:11)
What did I say? What did I say?
Yeah.
Yeah, of course. Well, I think on one level, I wouldn't have any part of my life if I didn't have an eating disorder when I was younger because my whole life, my career, who I am as a person, the things that I believe in, what I strive for, how I connect to people, it's all because of that.
suffering that I went through. Like nothing about me would be anything about me if it hadn't have happened to me. You know, I think sometimes, you know, we go, we all go through so many different challenges and those are the things that I'm speaking to when I talk about how we are shaped by them. And, and, and truthfully, I believe for the better, like I truly think that I'm like so much more of a thoughtful person and I have so much more compassion.
And I think I'm such a better mother and I'm just a better person for having been through an eating disorder as strange as that is. And, and yeah, I would never want anyone to suffer for it, but I do think that we grow insurmountably from hard things. You know, where we learn our capacity. It's like, it's pretty, it's incredibly powerful.
Heather Mcginley (18:38)
When I think I used to be more of a binary thinker, and as I've grown, I'm much more all in on shades of gray. And I think for me, in the hard things that I've been through in my life, the hard thing and the right thing are often the same thing. And also sometimes, like it is possible for two things to be true.
One, an eating disorder, an addiction, these horrible things that happen in our life. We're not pretending they're great. There's no trying to wash that in something positive. It's horrible and it's a difficult part of our lives. It is also true that I know for me I wouldn't be who I am today if I hadn't been through those things and I like who I am today. Both of those things are true.
Kyla Fox (19:17)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think that is life. Like, it's sort of that combination of all the beautiful things while maybe simultaneously dealing with painful things. They're happening together all the time, right? Like, I think that is the interesting life lesson for all of us, that two things can exist together. Mm-hmm.
Heather Mcginley (19:42)
Now
you founded The Centre in Toronto. Can you tell us a little bit about what it is and why you decided to, cause that, have to imagine that was a big project to get up and running. Can you talk about what it is and why you decided to open it?
Kyla Fox (19:56)
Yeah, so when I was in my recovery, like I had said earlier, I just really lacked the ability to find resources to help me through my recovery. And so, you know, like there wasn't hospital-based care available to me, the waitlists were too long. My parents would send me to professionals who claimed that they really worked with people with eating disorders and then I would go and I would chat with them and I would just lie and tell them I was.
fabulous and doing all these things that I wasn't doing and they would say, you're doing so great. And I would just leave and say to my parents, like, this is not ever going to help me. Like nobody is pushing me to be honest. And so, you know, through my own recovery with my family and my home and doing all kinds of things on my own to try to get myself well, I really started to think like, I understand this like so deeply.
have to work with people who are suffering because I just get what it's about. And so I kind of made it my mission when I was well enough to go back to school that I would study to become the therapist that I really wanted myself and probably needed. that was very motivating for me. And so when I graduated from my master's, I had a private practice in Toronto and I would work with, you
tons of people who are suffering with eating disorders. I would do the work sort of thinking out of the box, like, you this person really struggles at lunchtime, so maybe I'll have a session with them at that time and they can bring their lunch and they can eat with me. Like, it's sort of, I started to just kind of like think beyond like just having a therapy session, which like you can't recover from an eating disorder with a therapy session once a week. Like that is just not gonna cut it. Eating disorders are like...
infiltrated into your moment by moment life. You can't just like slap on a 60 minute therapy session at some point in the week and think it's gonna do something. It's not. And so I would always say like in Toronto, like there just isn't enough available for people who are suffering. Like I have to open something. So after about 10 years of practice, I got tired of talking about this like desire to have a Centre. And I just said, I'm just gonna open a Centre. I mean, I didn't know what it would do. I didn't know what it would become.
Heather Mcginley (21:41)
Yeah.
Kyla Fox (22:04)
if anything, I just thought it would be sort of like a bigger, like maybe a bigger empty space that I ran my private practice out of. But it actually turned out to be this incredibly unbelievable place for people with eating disorders. And I was able to bring in a lot of, you know, very talented practitioners from not just therapists, like nutritionists, medical practitioners, embodiment practitioners, you know, different
different kinds of people with different expertise to really service this population. And then that was, you know, now 14 years ago. So I've been in practice for about 20 years and The Centre is really a very comprehensive eating disorder recovery Centre. And now when I say that, like eating disorders,
are on a spectrum. You some people are acutely suffering. Some people have been yo-yo dieting their whole lives. Some people are just like, have had this really negative body image their whole life or just don't know how to be in relationship with food. And so we work with the entire spectrum of eating disorders and acutely, not just those who are, you know, dealing with heightened restriction, but also those who are
really, really heightened in binging and purging, right? So we service everyone and anyone who feels challenged and is suffering with food in their body. And we help them to not only develop a safe and regulated relationship with food in their body, but also to do all that really deep rooted work therapeutically that has led them to all this dysfunction.
you know, now we're fully virtual, which frankly, I think has, you know, it's, it's quite an intentional decision because even though COVID sort of slapped this on us, it's been incredible to see, I think that's this idea of like food being so integrated into life. I really always believed that treatment therefore needed to be integrated into life because, you know, like people and food are coming together all the time. And so we have this beautiful opportunity now, literally.
Heather Mcginley (23:40)
Yeah.
Kyla Fox (23:57)
where people are in their lives and then they can kind of weave their therapy through their life. So like pop up on the screen and have their meal with us or pop up on the screen and have their therapy session. So some people work with us quite intensively as though they are engaged in outpatient treatment and other people in a much lesser capacity because they don't necessarily need that same level of care.
Heather Mcginley (24:16)
Well, and as you're talking to what strikes me earlier you talked about how isolating when you were in the thick of your eating disorder was, and now you've created this really strong, supportive, vibrant community. That's a big difference. Can you talk a little bit about the role of community and what that has meant to your life and serving this community as well?
Kyla Fox (24:22)
Okay.
Yeah, I I think that when we all when we feel a sense of belonging, that's an incredibly powerful place to be because I think that when we feel we're a part of something, then we can understand sort of the bigger ideas around our purpose and our meaning and our worth and connection. And when we can connect to people who have like similar beliefs and or experiences and
people who lift us up and hear us and give us space. I think that really helps to feel less alone. And when you have an eating disorder, I mean, the truth is, that eating disorders breed in secrecy and they breed in silence. So fundamentally, if we start to make a connection and build community, then we're less in isolation and then we become less secretive. And that in and of itself starts to give us more power and recovery.
I think especially for women, you know, I don't know if you find this, but I always sort of felt this in my life, that there's this innate, like competitive nature amongst women. And it's hard for women to really find, you know, community and be really supportive and to support others. And I actually feel like,
That's a very important thing for women in particular to find. I think it's easier for men in some ways because women have such deeply emotionally embedded relationships and there's so much that we go through together. But as women, if we can connect to other women who really support us, I feel like that's a huge lifeline for a sense of worth and happiness and joy and togetherness, which is a huge piece of healing.
Heather Mcginley (26:17)
Yeah, I I think about when I, I've been through a divorce and the biggest surprise of the divorce process for me, I went into it thinking, okay, I've got to fix my, the way I approach romantic relationships and partnership and that that's the part I need to fix. My big surprise was the biggest gift from my healing process has been connecting to a community of other divorced women. Didn't expect that at all.
Kyla Fox (26:39)
Mm-hmm.
Heather Mcginley (26:41)
but they're the ones that we cheered for each other. We supported each other. We checked each other. Like, hey, don't, you know, couldn't think about this, you know, supporting each other in all the most important ways. And I, it was such a surprise and has been the biggest gift and has been the biggest part of my own personal healing. And I am so thankful and grateful for that because you're right. I think it's part of heal. Like to me, community is integral to healing. Like it's not something I think anyone can do alone. I really don't feel that way.
Kyla Fox (26:56)
Thank you.
Mm-hmm.
I think so too.
Mm-hmm.
Heather Mcginley (27:11)
We need other people.
Kyla Fox (27:11)
Yes. I think so too. And I think that it doesn't necessarily have to mean that you, you you can find community with people who are going through a similar experience and that can be really enriching. Some people will say like, I don't want to, you know, connect to other people with eating disorders because like that's just not where I want to be anymore. And so sometimes I feel like when I think about my own journey,
You know, I didn't have recovery community around me, but I did immerse myself in yoga, which was a huge sense of community and connection to myself. So it wasn't eating disorder focused, but I felt like I belonged somewhere and I was more deeply connected to myself and the people that were a part of that experience.
were moving and breathing and feeling and doing something, you and then, you know, you keep showing up and then you get to know people and that part of my life in terms of community has been so rich too. So I say that because I think some people think like, God, I gotta find a community of people who are going through what I am and you can, but you can also find other environments that really support skill and talent and interest and feeling of a feeling of sense of,
Belonging can happen in so many different places.
Heather Mcginley (28:27)
Well, and sometimes when you're going through it, something that I have shared with some of my friends that are also going through hard times, or just, this is just something that helped me finding little ways to inject joy into my life. Even if it's on a small level every day, like I think just sometimes when you, you know, like I remember in the early days of my divorce, I couldn't even get out of bed. It was a struggle to go to work. I literally got up, walked to my computer because it was during COVID, did my work and went right back to bed.
Kyla Fox (28:45)
I'm filming.
Heather Mcginley (28:52)
And find, and what was the big difference for me? We're finding little ways, going for a walk, you know, like little, just little things to make yourself joyful because you have to give yourself a life raft. Cause to your point, these things take a lot of time, but you don't have to be completely miserable all through that process. You need some breaks.
Kyla Fox (29:09)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. Like anywhere where you can have some element of relief and connection to something outside of the sadness or the struggle is really, really important and hopeful.
Heather Mcginley (29:20)
⁓
Now, I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this. This is something I've talked about with my girlfriends. think there's a generational thing of the way we grew up as women. You know, like I think for a lot of us that are our age and our generation, our mothers might have talked quite a bit about diets, about what their bodies look And it's a generational thing. It's not, you know, specific to particular moms. I would say it's everybody. So any moms that are listening, it's not personal towards you. It's a generational thing. Whereas I think a lot of women in our generation have tried to
not do that. And for you, especially with your personal experience and you have two little girls, how has recovery impacted the way that you parent your daughter?
Kyla Fox (29:57)
I get so choked up when I talk about being a mom. It's just so big for me. It's so meaningful. And it's probably been the greatest part of any sort of healing I ever could have done. Or maybe I healed enough that I was lucky enough to have them. I don't really know.
I take being a mom really seriously and I'm certainly not perfect on any level, but I feel a tremendous responsibility to enrich my girls with safety and love and support. Like things that I don't think I had as a kid, which were really fundamental to my lack of worth.
And so I think when it comes to food and the body and the messages that we give to children about that, we do have a very important responsibility to check in with ourselves about our own narratives that we have about our own bodies or our own relationship with food. And we do all kinds of things knowingly and unknowingly that give messages to our children about like.
what they should eat or what they shouldn't or what their bodies look like or what their bodies shouldn't look like. We're doing this always. And you're right that it's maybe a generational thing, but I also just think we live in a world that's saturated by diet culture and we're all a part of that messaging. So we're all inundated with it. Even like, don't have that treat or like, why are you hungry now? It's dinner in five hour. Like finish your plate or.
All these things we say that we don't even recognize what we're saying or how it's landing or the impact of that. One of the really powerful things that I've learned being a mom is, you know, is like, and it's hard for me, but I do, I do try to like, just step back a bit, you know, like watch my kids, like let them lead more.
we, I feel like we're, we're, interrupt so much. We inject ourselves as parents, you know, and children are incredible. Like they're incredible little people who have so much capacity and we're like interrupting them all the time and getting in the way of that. Like, so when it comes to food and my kids, what I've always tried to do is just kind of like step back a bit and just like,
put out on the table what I really want them to enjoy and watch them more and not say so much all the time. Finish that, three more bites. Don't you want more of that? Just stop and watch. And it's been an incredibly healing piece for me because there was always a lot of noise going on at the table for me or just messaging around food. And I feel like what I've seen is like
the ability to raise kids who can actually be in touch with their body. Sometimes they're really hungry. Sometimes they're really not. And they can decide those things. I don't have to decide them for them. Like I feel as a mom, I set the tone for how I want them to be with food and what it means to make choices about food and what food can do for us.
how important it is to like be active and move and sleep well and you know, whatever, all the things. But I really work hard to move away from, you know, don't have that or I hate my butt or whatever it is, right? All the things that we say. Because I think that we cannot underestimate how our children are sponges to us, like they worship us.
Heather Mcginley (33:17)
Yeah.
you
Kyla Fox (33:28)
until they don't, but they do for the first while. I hope I do too. know my, oh my God, my oldest just turned 10. I'm like, how much longer until you don't like it? Yeah.
Heather Mcginley (33:30)
few more years left I think until they want me to go away. I think I three years left.
My two! They're getting there. I went to see my kids
at a show. They were in a show at school recently and I went over to give one of my kids a hug and literally walked a circle around me to avoid me and go with their friends to leave. was like...
Kyla Fox (33:49)
⁓ Totally,
totally. I know we get that it's like, Mom, don't come in or Mom, like, don't speak so loud. It's like, God, God, I'm already in this place, right? But I think, know, but you know, part of me, got to say too, like, as much as like it kills me when I hear those things, I'm also like, grateful that
they can like self-assert and like they're finding their own way. And they also don't need me for everything. Like there's this sort of strength and security in their sense of self, which I really think is such a beautiful thing. Like I can't obviously remember vividly around what I was like as a kid, but I just think I was really, I was really people pleasing and I really just like wanted to always do good by my parents. And I think that that
you know, led to a lot of just, you know, just doing things for others instead of really knowing how to do for myself. So I really do try to instill a lot of confidence in my kids. And, and, know, in terms of food in the body specifically, it's like, I just, there's, there's very clear language that we use, which isn't like good, bad, healthy, unhealthy treat this. It's just like, it's just food. It's food. And it's like, it doesn't have to be up here at the forefront. It's like,
Life is happening and food is a part of it, but it's not like here, front and center you know?
Heather Mcginley (35:07)
Yeah, yeah,
yeah. What makes you happy these days?
Kyla Fox (35:10)
well, my kids for sure. My partner, like my life. I, you know, in full transparency, like I wish I could appreciate happiness more. Like I wish I could let myself have it more. I think I'm like, I'm fast and when I...
I may be like, sort of am like highly determined and ambitious. So I'm like looking ahead a lot instead of being, I think maybe in my forties, I've come to be able to do that a little bit better. wish I had more, I wish I gave myself more space to just be in happiness and be content. You know, that's been an ongoing life work and progress for me. But when I think about it, I would say like first and foremost, my family.
My children bring me so much joy. I almost can't even believe that I get to have them. And what else makes me happy is my yoga practice. when I have worked also like, my work, when I have watched someone in the depths of despair and my team has moved them into recovery, nothing could beat that privilege, right? That's like such real joy for me.
Heather Mcginley (36:14)
As we're kind of wrapping up here, have two things I want to ask you about that I think are important. And you are best poised to speak to this for anyone who's listening that is in the depths of an eating disorder or they love someone who's in the depths of an eating disorder. What would you like to say to them?
Kyla Fox (36:17)
Yeah.
I would like to say that life can be so much better and richer and happier and you don't have to suffer. And there is a way out even if you don't want one and that you couldn't possibly imagine how beautiful your life could be without it. And tell someone.
that you're suffering if they don't know already. And even if you don't want the help, ask for it. I would also say to the people who love someone who's suffering, that I think it's very, important to be very honest about the fact that you know that's real for them. I think when you have an eating disorder, there's this big struggle between wanting to keep it and wanting so badly for people to save you from it. You know that tug of war, right? And I think
in a lot of families that I work with and even with my own family when I was going through it, it's like, you everyone's walking on eggshells and like recovery lives in honesty. And so if we can say to someone like, you're not okay, I see, I love you. I'm here with you. Let's figure out how we can get you some help. Like, I think that's a very powerful thing to do.
And I think we have a responsibility when we love someone to say that to them. I sort of wish people would have done that for me.
Heather Mcginley (37:49)
Yeah, I think,
you know, I know for me, and this is different, it's related but different, you know, the people in my life that have struggled with potentially life ending things going on in their life. It has been really scary, because I know for me at times I got scared, like what if I say the wrong thing and then something bad happens and, you know, and I think you start living in fear and you don't know what to do.
Kyla Fox (37:59)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and that's very real. what, yeah, I think the thing to say is I'm scared I'm not gonna say the right thing here. And I just want you to know how much I love you and that I see, I see what's happening and I love you and I'm gonna help you to figure this out. know, because I think the truth is like there really isn't a right thing to say. I think people just wanna be seen and
I think that's a beautiful step to do that.
Heather Mcginley (38:38)
When you think back to young Kyla, what would you want to say to that person?
Kyla Fox (38:40)
Hmm.
So many things, my God. I think first and foremost, it's so funny as you get older, you're like, why was that such a big deal? Why? You know? Yeah. I guess you have to go on the floor to get to the place where you could laugh later, right? Maybe that's the whole point. But I do really wish someone would have said, like, hi, it's all going to work out.
Heather Mcginley (38:50)
Now I laugh at the things they had me on the floor 20 years ago.
Yeah.
Kyla Fox (39:07)
It's gonna be okay. It's actually gonna be better than okay. It's gonna be great. And like, you got this and you're strong. You're strong.
Heather Mcginley (39:18)
I think sometimes you just need to know that there's a light. It might take you a while to get there, but you can get there.
Kyla Fox (39:23)
Yeah. yeah. mean, I feel like hope is a critical part of healing. And if we don't have hope, I don't think we can move. You know, I think people often when they hear about eating disorders, they'll hear things like, you're going to have this forever. Or, you know, it's never going to go away. You know, you'll be better, but not really, you know, like there's like a lot of language around that. And I just like to say like, no way, no way that's not even
That's not even acceptable. You know, we have to know that we can live freely without this.
Heather Mcginley (39:55)
That's great. And I want to thank you so much for being here. Where can people find you if they want to work with you or they want to hear more from you? Where can they find you?
Kyla Fox (40:03)
It can find me The Centre is well The Centre by Kyla Fox and it's www.kylafox Centre spelt Canadian which is like totally wild for the Americans c-e-n-t-r-e dot com or via social media at kylafoxrecovery.
Heather Mcginley (40:19)
And we'll put all that in the show notes too. So for our American friends who Siri loves to autocorrect when you spell things the Canadian way, we will address that issue. So we'll put those in the show notes for everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today to tell your story. I have a lot of admiration and support for the community we crave for people that need it. And I hope it's okay to say, I think you and I knew each other when we were both struggling a lot, a long time ago. And I am very happy for you that you've gotten.
Kyla Fox (40:26)
Yeah, totally.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Heather Mcginley (40:51)
So thank you to everyone who's listening to the Happily Never After, especially ones on their own journey, and hope you have a great week.
Kyla Fox (40:57)
Thanks so much, Heather.